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Post by betahat on May 14, 2010 13:48:41 GMT -5
^ I don't think they are as deeply influenced by Western thought, education, values as we Western EAs are whether we are aware of it or not.
I'm not sure about that, based on all the Asians I know born in North America in Canada or the US - I'll give you that those who are bilingual are more attuned to Asian culture because they can consume it without subtitles and translations, but I know quite a few who really don't speak the mother tongue (or who are only now, in college, trying to learn it). I think language is the key - much more important than what percent Asian or white you are. There are white people who are "yellow-washed" too.
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Post by Ganbare! on May 14, 2010 14:13:35 GMT -5
^We were not referring to Western-based Asians but to Westernized Asians in the East though I agree with you. ^ Sorry, but I don't think that is the reason. It is because - Western countries colonized Asia - set up western institutions and imposed their ideas of law and government and finance - brought their religion and converted people - marketed their culture and lifestyle - music, cinema, theatre, and consumer brands (McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Starbucks, iPhone, Lady Gaga, facebook, etc. -- who in Asia does not know these things (Except maybe NorthKorea?) - created a situation where Asians speaking different langauges use ENGLISH as their lingua franca -- in fact, this helps diffuse ethnic tensions as English is not associated with any particular ethnic group. Could you imagine Europeans using Korean or Thai to communicate with each other across ethnic and regional boundaries? Jefe if you have to contradict the poor kid don't be so assertive you are going to scare him off or maybe that is your real intention. ;D
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Post by FreckleFoot on May 16, 2010 3:26:30 GMT -5
In response to the first post, I feel that I probably come under the category of being white-washed. I was raised solely in white culture, know only my white parent's language and was raised more or less as a white child without little to no Asian input from my father. However, I have realised my general demeanour and attitudes/beliefs to certain things are more typical of Asians even without any intervention from my father. The only experience I had was in watching Chinese films. I've briefly had a taste of Chinese culture with my Chinese side of the family and that was when it really hit me in regards to what I've been missing: all my cousins are fluent in Cantonese and get to experience this bubble of Chinese culture in a western country as they grow into adults. This was also when I realised I may be more Asian than I think. To be honest... until I know more, I don't think I know how washed I am!
I'm not sure if I think it is a bad thing to be white-washed, but I feel as if it is a pity. I do feel that society makes us feel it is terrible to forget one of our parent's cultures and to not know anything about it, but at the same time I feel it is because they fetishise us and other cultures too much. 'Oh, wow! Half Chinese! Tell me all about the far away land of the East!' And they expect you to fascinate them with tales of Chinese history and culture, or maybe just show them what 'strength' or 'wisdom' is in Chinese so they can get that cool tattoo they've wanted for ages. You're not human: you're just some tool for them to gain some knowledge of/from a place they've never been to. Never mind that you've never been there either.
Sometimes I get the feeling that Asian and half-Asian people are still not seen as normal humans who can be born and raised in another culture: they must always be connected with everything Asia. They don't belong anywhere else. Black people, for example, are always accepted as being British, American, Canadian, etc. No one comes up to a British/American/Canadian-born black person and asks them about Somalian traditions, Jamaican cuisine or how to say 'I love you' in Bantu or Afrikaans. That a black person can have one of those nationalities without knowing anything of the culture of their ancestors is accepted and not questioned, whereas with an Asian or half-Asian person, it is.
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Post by jefe on May 16, 2010 13:37:16 GMT -5
I do feel that society makes us feel it is terrible to forget one of our parent's cultures and to not know anything about it, but at the same time I feel it is because they fetishise us and other cultures too much. 'Oh, wow! Half Chinese! Tell me all about the far away land of the East!' And they expect you to fascinate them with tales of Chinese history and culture, or maybe just show them what 'strength' or 'wisdom' is in Chinese so they can get that cool tattoo they've wanted for ages. You're not human: you're just some tool for them to gain some knowledge of/from a place they've never been to. Never mind that you've never been there either. IT sounds like by "society" you mean white society, and by Asians, you mean Asians in a western society. When I was a teenager, I knew that there was more to the equation, so I decided to go to Taiwan and HK for the summer. I just had to know how ASIANS (in Asia, not the ones in western countries) would treat me as well as WHITES who live in Asian countries. Do you imagine that they have fetishes as well? Actually, instead of saying the reverse, ie, 'Oh, wow! Half White! Tell me all about the far away land of the West!' They might simply label you as foreigner, and then, as an afterthought, find it a curiosity that you have some Chinese blood in you. Or it could be something else altogether - it's an experiment. Whatever it is, I strongly recommend that all EAs on this forum, if they have never spent time in Asia, seriously consider doing it, if only it helps them to put things in perspective. Maybe that is why I find the majority of *full* Asians in western countries to be rather white-washed already, esp. those that grew up there. I am including those who are very much into their Asian pride. Even when I was living / growing up in the USA, I tended to gravitate more to FOB / foreign students / new immigrants. I guess I felt alienation from the mainstream society and found people who tolerated me. I found ABC's in general to be very *white* in their outlook. But that is *me* only - I realize many on this forum do not agree.
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palavore
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Post by palavore on May 17, 2010 14:21:33 GMT -5
Maybe that is why I find the majority of *full* Asians in western countries to be rather white-washed already, esp. those that grew up there. I am including those who are very much into their Asian pride. Even when I was living / growing up in the USA, I tended to gravitate more to FOB / foreign students / new immigrants. I guess I felt alienation from the mainstream society and found people who tolerated me. I found ABC's in general to be very *white* in their outlook. But that is *me* only - I realize many on this forum do not agree. Jefe, those white folks you knew growing up are completely different now. They are older and they are angrier. I kid, I kid... but some of them reminisce about the good 'ole days, about the time they had alienating and chasing a certain EA out the country. The U.S. born Asians I know are more black-washed than white-washed, in speech, music, and outlook. They identity with minority culture as presented on the BET, the modern black urbanism, even though most of them are from the 'burbs. But America is an individualistic society, so people will continue to reinvent themselves.
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Post by Ganbare! on May 17, 2010 15:48:56 GMT -5
^Well put. A lot of people regardless of race are influenced by African-American culture, without being an EA-gger, Black culture had a powerful influence on me, at least more than the Asian one until a few years ago.
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Post by FreckleFoot on May 18, 2010 4:21:25 GMT -5
IT sounds like by "society" you mean white society, and by Asians, you mean Asians in a western society. Yes. Unfortunately, in my narrow experience, this is the only context in which I have known society and Asians. Having never lived in Asia, I cannot really comment on Asian society. The only society I have experienced in living in the UK, Canada and France is a white one. I may have an Asian father and other relatives, but my father has become very Anglicised. I'm sure my aunts and uncles have also adopted many things from Canada that I am unaware of and my cousins are very Canadian outside of knowing the language, eating the food and watching a few shows. My grandmother is the only one I would call an Asian Asian. So all the Asians I have known from North America, the UK and Europe are not Asian Asians. I've heard the same from others, but of course I cannot know if it's true as it is all second-hand experiences and not first-hand. I have heard of some cultures fetishising Eurasians. e.g. I have heard that, in Malaysia, the majority of models, TV hosts and such are all Eurasians, but now people start to hate them for dominating these areas. I've heard some Japanese are crazy about Eurasians and will want to be friends with them just so they can boast to other people that they know one. I don't know if any of it is true, but I would assume anyone can be fetishised in any culture by those who do not have enough awareness of the rest of the world. Even after all my travels, it is clear I am still ignorant of many things and I accept that as one cannot know everything. However, I always welcome more knowledge about the world! With all of your experience and knowledge, I trust what you are saying. I just hope our plans to go to Asia will pan out. Even if it isn't to China, I'm sure it would be an experience I would never forget. It must be irritating to know what Asians born and raised in Asia are really like and to see everyone thinking and believing it is something entirely different. It's probably because not all of us have had the opportunity to live in Asia and learn about what it is that is truly Asian. I have perhaps seen glances of it, but then I also wonder if it isn't some Canadianised form of it because all of it was witnessed in a bubble in Canada. I will never know if it really is until I can go to Asia.
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Post by jefe on May 18, 2010 14:23:34 GMT -5
Jefe, those white folks you knew growing up are completely different now. They are older and they are angrier. I kid, I kid... but some of them reminisce about the good 'ole days, about the time they had alienating and chasing a certain EA out the country. ha-ha, I am sure they don't reminisce. They said that they fought in Korea / Vietnam, etc. so that WE people would not be there -- they succeeded in getting one of the targets to leave them alone. Interestingly, I grew up in Anacostia (SE Washington, DC) and southern PG County, MD. Anyone who is familiar with those neighborhoods know that I indeed came from the *HOOD*. I think I must be the reverse of Obama - -he grew up with Asians and I grew up with Blacks. But, despite having black neighbors, sharing a locker with a black guy, even joining African-American clubs, I never managed to share a deep identity with blacks. I didn't learn to share one with whites either. And I didn't really grow up with many Asians outside my family. But when I had the chance to leave, I did. Not to escape blacks, per se, but to experience something different. Now I sometimes wish I developed my black identify more fully.
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Post by jefe on May 18, 2010 14:35:45 GMT -5
It must be irritating to know what Asians born and raised in Asia are really like and to see everyone thinking and believing it is something entirely different. It's probably because not all of us have had the opportunity to live in Asia and learn about what it is that is truly Asian. I have perhaps seen glances of it, but then I also wonder if it isn't some Canadianised form of it because all of it was witnessed in a bubble in Canada. I will never know if it really is until I can go to Asia. I think the biggest difference is this (and this is a very very gross generalization, not to applied to any single individual) -- most Asians in Asia have not had the experience of being a racial minority. They may have had some experience of being an ethnic minority (eg, Chinese in Phils. or Filipinos in HK). They simply think of everyone who is not like them as a *foreigner*. When they first go to a western country, they might simply think that they are in a foreign country. But shortly, that will wear off, and then they realize that they are indeed a racial minority (once they identify as being a resident in their new land). Then they start to develop attitudes and viewpoints that they never had before in their former country. Indeed, in Asia, they might even think much about being "Asian" per se, but it smacks them in the face when they have relocated permanently in a western country. Then they start to be affected by Western attitudes about race. This will affect how they will view Eurasians too. I think it is also difficult to find out what truly Asian is also, as there has been so much western cultural influence in Asia. To tell the truth, the world is getting more and more alike culturally, esp. the large urban areas. Many Asian urban dwellers are also not so oriented to their traditional past either, substituting western habits here and there.
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palavore
Full Member
I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I make gold posts.
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Post by palavore on May 18, 2010 16:56:20 GMT -5
Now I sometimes wish I developed my black identify more fully. It's not too late. I got my black points and you can earn yours too. It's game they play on me at work. It started when they found out that I listened to Earth, Wind, and Fire. Then I got caught listening to C-Rayz Walz and Jedi Mind Tricks (underground hip hop). That's when they started giving me black points. Things were going good until I started losing black points. (Yes, you can lose black points, i.e. Tiger Woods) It was revealed in a conversation that I never heard of the movie The Color Purple or the song Purple Rain. They stripped me of all my black points right then and there. Purple was my unlucky color that week. But then after watching New Jack City and quoting Malcolm X, my black points were restored. Right now, I'm somewhere between Steve Urkel and Carlton on the blackness scale: <--- ;D (ME) --->
I imagine, Jefe, that you would get a lot black points for growing up in Prince George's County. That's a good head start.
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Post by Ganbare! on May 18, 2010 20:14:22 GMT -5
^LOL your comparison suggests that you're 0,01% Black! (I'm blowing purple stuff x3) It must be irritating to know what Asians born and raised in Asia are really like and to see everyone thinking and believing it is something entirely different. It's probably because not all of us have had the opportunity to live in Asia and learn about what it is that is truly Asian. I have perhaps seen glances of it, but then I also wonder if it isn't some Canadianised form of it because all of it was witnessed in a bubble in Canada. I will never know if it really is until I can go to Asia. I think the biggest difference is this (and this is a very very gross generalization, not to applied to any single individual) -- most Asians in Asia have not had the experience of being a racial minority. They may have had some experience of being an ethnic minority (eg, Chinese in Phils. or Filipinos in HK). They simply think of everyone who is not like them as a *foreigner*. When they first go to a western country, they might simply think that they are in a foreign country. But shortly, that will wear off, and then they realize that they are indeed a racial minority (once they identify as being a resident in their new land). Then they start to develop attitudes and viewpoints that they never had before in their former country. Indeed, in Asia, they might even think much about being "Asian" per se, but it smacks them in the face when they have relocated permanently in a western country. Then they start to be affected by Western attitudes about race. This will affect how they will view Eurasians too. I think it is also difficult to find out what truly Asian is also, as there has been so much western cultural influence in Asia. To tell the truth, the world is getting more and more alike culturally, esp. the large urban areas. Many Asian urban dwellers are also not so oriented to their traditional past either, substituting western habits here and there. You seem to dislike the Westernization of Asia. Do you support cultural purity? Despite being the multicultural EA that I am as well as consuming this global culture I'd rather for them to stay apart and not fuse like they are now as some essential features will inevitably disappear in the process.
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palavore
Full Member
I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I make gold posts.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Posts: 298
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Post by palavore on May 18, 2010 21:07:10 GMT -5
^LOL your comparison suggests that you're 0,01% Black! (I'm blowing purple stuff x3) Jealous much? BTW, since .01% black is still black, I can officially hand out points. Starting now, Ganbare has -999 black points. The only person that can help you now is Marvin Gaye--and he's dead.
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Post by Ganbare! on May 18, 2010 22:34:45 GMT -5
^Says the guy who consciously shut his mind to Prince's mythical song! Maybe you're right though after all I have only one Black friend and he's not really Black as he is a hip hop-hating fighting games-addict mulatto! Damn, I'm pathetic all these years of practicing breakdance, graffiti, rap and I've met so few Blacks.
I think I might be suffering from gentrification more than I first imagined. What's next? Blowing kisses to a Margaret Tatcher portrait or swinging to Tom Jones? HAHAHA...
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Post by betahat on May 19, 2010 19:48:16 GMT -5
I don't know, underground hip hop sounds a little white hipsterish to me. You should stick to the stuff on BET if you want maximum points.
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palavore
Full Member
I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I make gold posts.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Posts: 298
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Post by palavore on May 19, 2010 20:37:37 GMT -5
I don't know, underground hip hop sounds a little white hipsterish to me. You should stick to the stuff on BET if you want maximum points. I treat labels like the projects, cuz I'm a hater. Go to the Sony building and piss in the elevator. Haters or hustlers, crooks and cheap smugglers, bootleg my own album, to reach customers. Every city state, in the country, the hood loves me. Even aborigines in Australia bump me. They say underground fans are all the color of talcum. Who the f*** you think buy 50 and Jay albums? Who the f*** you think made Snoop and Dre platinum? Call up any major record label and ask them. But there are some devils in disguise in hip hop. That that belong in Republican fundraisers with Kid Rock. I hope one my of fans has one of your kids shot, And blame it on acid, Prozac, and Slipknot.
--Reverse Pimpology
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