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Post by Paddy on Dec 23, 2008 16:09:14 GMT -5
There is a novelist by the name of Louise Jordan Miln. She's American, and wrote prolifically during the 1920s and 1930s. Her subject - mixed race love between westerners and Chinese. Her books are a fascinating look at how mixed race love (and the resulting produce) was perceived during the early 20th century. A few of you may know that I have a penchant for books of this period and on such subjects. She was seen as a progressive thinker in those days. She abhorred the treatment meted out by colonialists, vocally championed the rights of natives throughout Asia, especially in the various Western treaty ports and colonies. Yet, few of her books contain eurasians. She was a proponent of universal social equality, while also a firm defender of racial and cultural segregation. Thus, there could be love, but no children. Read with a sense of mischief and a pinch (or a spade) of salt, the books are immensely enjoyable, even educational. But her books are not for the hyper-touchy. In a Shantung Garden (1924) opens with the line - "Not every White and Yellow marriage is a failure"If you can take lines like this, then you'll have fun with these books. My purpose for starting this thread is to bring to your attention the characters of her book Mr. & Mrs. Sen (1923). Their names are Ruben and Ivy - they are the eurasian children of Mr. and Mrs. Sen. "Ruben is Chinese. He looks English, but he is thoroughly Chinese" whereas Ivy was his polar opposite where "except for the outer sheath of Chinese beauty – she was all a Western."Thus you have a western looking boy with a Chinese personality and a Chinese looking girl with a western personality. When on his death bed, Mr. Sen appearing to see the error of his ways, decrees that the two children should never be allowed to marry (and contaminate society). As the story unfolds, there appears to be far greater concern shown for Ivy - for she is, inside, a western sophisticate born with the curse of looking like a pretty Chinese harlot. What greater shame could there be?! A westerner trapped in a Chinese body! I'd implore you to search out these books. But before you do, I'd like to ask if any of you feel trapped in an Asian body or a western body?? Any western sophisticates lost in a degenerate Asian body? How do you think the way you look affects the way you are? Or is personality pre-determined as in the case of Ruben and Ivy?  |
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Post by Paddy on Dec 24, 2008 13:11:28 GMT -5
Hello moderators - should this thread be moved?
Could it go somewhere where everyone will feel compelled to read and comment.
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Post by loloduffs on Dec 25, 2008 11:13:47 GMT -5
Very interesting author. I applaud you for finding her, that was very interesting. She obviously was way ahead of her time to be thinking in such a multicultural notion especially for that time.
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Post by jefe on Dec 27, 2008 5:56:57 GMT -5
A Eurasian trapped in a Eurasian body is not an easy place to be either.
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Post by Subuatai on Dec 27, 2008 6:59:37 GMT -5
A human who doesn't believe genetics define the individual, trapped in a world where others believe it does, is not an easy place to be either. I hope not to offend, but this is quite typical American literature. To be honest I remember once I was quite surprised when I read an article about racism, and according to that article racism exists in all cultures. Personally I found it rather laughable, but... ignorance is bliss  |
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Post by dipsydoodle on Dec 27, 2008 16:15:50 GMT -5
If the books don't deal with hapa, why would I find them interesting? What do I care about this white man and that Asian woman or that Asian man and this white woman? None of that has anything to do with me. They're blandies. And I have no use for mixies who can't face up to their mixedness.
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Post by avax on Dec 27, 2008 17:26:34 GMT -5
^
1) If a mixed person is rejected for being mixed because they don't look stereotypically mixed and are judged as being different from what they are on the inside, they may have zero affiliation with their eurasian/mixedness.
Those who have little affiliation with the hype of being mixed may also be rejected by the mixed community first, for their thoughts that expand the mixed experience on a spectrum, perhaps by individuals like yourself. With what purpose? To streamline mixed people into various camps? Create a structured hierarchy, animosity? Anger? Hate?
Without this spectrum of shared experience or knowledge, being mixed will become that thing you abhor - the mixed person will be stereotyped; they will become "blandies", typed and predictable. A collection of photocopied stories perhaps? Compounded with the elitist attitude, what a joke of truly "mixed" community this would be.
2) The "blandie" (as you use it) are family.
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Post by dipsydoodle on Dec 27, 2008 20:10:37 GMT -5
No mixed person can be rejected by a mixed community (whatever that is). It is mixed people who get rejected from the blandie world. Mixed people of all people on earth understand that many mixed people don't readily look mixed and many of us are often mistaken for something we're not (I've been identified as Asian, American Indian, Mexican, white). We don't fit the blandie molds--that's the whole problem. They want us to be one or the other because it they who have no options. WE have options and I suggest WE better start using them. Make them understand that an entirely new dialogue on race MUST be opened because mixies don't have any place in the current one. We have a mixed president now. We are going to own this country eventually. Now is the time for a new paradigm (I think I just wrote a rap lyric).
>>The "blandie" (as you use it) are family.<<
Blandies are NOT family. Family is family. I don't see race inside my family. Race is outside. Always outside.
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Post by jefe on Dec 27, 2008 23:35:08 GMT -5
To be honest I remember once I was quite surprised when I read an article about racism, and according to that article racism exists in all cultures. Personally I found it rather laughable, but... ignorance is bliss Maybe you should use the word "tribalism" instead of "racism" as it is much more broad and relevant. Tribalism is a very human charateristic across all human cultures and societies. If some tribes use a concept of "race" to define "tribe" (some may use religion, language, or some other categorization factor to define affiliation), then it certainly supports that the hypothesis. |
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Post by jefe on Dec 27, 2008 23:37:29 GMT -5
And I have no use for mixies who can't face up to their mixedness. No mixed person can be rejected by a mixed community (whatever that is). It is mixed people who get rejected from the blandie world. Can you explain what you mean? Isn't having no use for someone a type of rejection?  |
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Post by swinger on Dec 27, 2008 23:50:15 GMT -5
^ I have no use for your logic, Jefe!
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Post by dipsydoodle on Dec 28, 2008 0:29:20 GMT -5
And I have no use for mixies who can't face up to their mixedness. No mixed person can be rejected by a mixed community (whatever that is). It is mixed people who get rejected from the blandie world. Can you explain what you mean? Isn't having no use for someone a type of rejection? Just because I accept you as a mixed person doesn't mean I have to like you, does it? You're still mixed whether I like you or not, aren't you? Do I HAVE to like you because you're mixed? No. I'm not going to like you just because you're mixed. I'm going to like you if you have the personality for it. But I still accept you as mixed because you ARE mixed. Geesh. |
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Post by avax on Dec 28, 2008 1:07:19 GMT -5
All right. There's a disjunct in communication. I understand what you're saying Dipsy but there will continue to be unproductive argument and more frustration if we don't recognize we're discussing different things: a) what is, b) what should be.
Great new paradigm. If I insert your statement below into the context of a), there is a problem (naturally).
"No mixed person can be rejected by a mixed community (whatever that is)."
Stating this means discrediting individuals who have been rejected in the form of disbelief - that a person is mixed - passive aggressive or outright. I would be surprised if no one has experienced this. This is disbelief (or "rejection") of a person's origins, where they come from, who they are, what they identify with, from another mixed person - let's not pretend mixed people are infallible in being stupidly myopic. Of course this isn't what you're saying.
In the context of b), I hope that more mixed people will adopt your paradigm readily, happily - and also others, "bland" or not, mixed or not!, with an open heart and open mind. By accepting the self-identification of others, there may be greater tolerance and recognition for minority-groups - including mixed people in their various shapes, colours and sizes.
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Post by Subuatai on Dec 28, 2008 7:33:12 GMT -5
To be honest I remember once I was quite surprised when I read an article about racism, and according to that article racism exists in all cultures. Personally I found it rather laughable, but... ignorance is bliss Maybe you should use the word "tribalism" instead of "racism" as it is much more broad and relevant. Tribalism is a very human charateristic across all human cultures and societies. If some tribes use a concept of "race" to define "tribe" (some may use religion, language, or some other categorization factor to define affiliation), then it certainly supports that the hypothesis. Aye, tribalism existed in all cultures and very strongly. It is natural for one to defend their own identity. However, the two is very different in many ways, racism carries with it not just xenophobia - which is existent in tribalism, but - a tendency towards supremist thoughts and genocidal acts where tribalism, at least in my culture, considers such thinking rather laughable. Well I have to admit that almost all that I've seen from America, either movies, magazines, academic journals, and from Americans themselves. Race -> it means EVERYTHING. Heh, in my opinion America hasn't really matured from the country's colonial roots which practiced colonial racialism. However, to be fair, I guess I've also met non-racialist Americans who live in Australia, but they too admit the flaws of their society, and wish change. In my opinion just be your own individual and to hell with any thoughts in regards to acceptance or respect. If you stand up for yourself as an individual, you COMMAND respect. Nothing they can do about it, you command their respect. |
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Post by asianwhite on Dec 28, 2008 14:14:11 GMT -5
Maybe he was talking abotu a naturalized affinity?
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