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Post by blunthammer on Jan 25, 2009 16:22:38 GMT -5
Ohhhh oHhhhh what's that British guy who is pretty popular recently. He came out with a ^^^ book called the God delusion or something?
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Post by betahat on Jan 25, 2009 16:40:20 GMT -5
^^^Richard Dawkins. I'm not his biggest fan because I see him as part of a new wave of "militant" atheists (along with Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris) that trivialize religion and religious believers - what he has to say about religion is not very deep or interesting compared to other writers who seek to understand what it is that makes people religious or not and what makes them tick. Respect and understanding should be first and foremost (although I don't have much patience for strict creationism or biblical literalism).
At the same time, I am adamantly for the separation of church and state, hence my level of annoyance at the over-the-top displays of religiosity at the Obama inauguration.
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Post by blunthammer on Jan 26, 2009 12:06:59 GMT -5
Yeah that's his name thanks dude! Lol, but I'd rather live amongst fundie atheists than fundie christian's. Seriously who would you rather live with and what group would likely offer you a better lifestyle and also a better lifestyle for your children? Think of things like the rate at which technology will probably advance and what not.
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Post by betahat on Jan 26, 2009 14:48:02 GMT -5
I agree - fundie atheists can still have sex and get wasted, though Dawkins doesn't seem like he would be that much fun - but that wouldn't be the case if I was religious and the fundie atheist was named Stalin or Mao or something like that.
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Kush
Junior Member
X)
Posts: 153
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Post by Kush on Jan 26, 2009 16:41:13 GMT -5
Although, I was raised Christian, I don't think I ever genuinely believed there was a God. I just said there was because that was what I'd been told in Church and in school.
As I grew up, about age 13ish, my own logic began to destabilize those "beliefs" I had - in quotes, because my Christianity never had any impact on my actions.
I gradually realised the dangers of groupthink, how the written word is open to self-interested interpretation, how real meaning can be lost in translation over hundreds of years and the outright contradictions of various religions with solid scientific facts.
This was reinforced by reading Dawkins, Orwell and other great authors.
That said, I get on fine with religious people. I don't begin telling them why I think they're wrong, unless they begin to preach to me. I don't raise my voice, I just tell them calmly (in the case of a Jehovah's witness) the many reasons why I might not want to decline a blood tranfusion. Usually it ends, with them saying something like "You just don't understand" or "It's just what I think".
So to answer your question, No - I've never really had issues with religion.
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Post by betahat on Jan 27, 2009 3:11:54 GMT -5
^^Jehovah's are the best because you can argue about religion without offending them. I learned a lot of my Spanish debating the merits of evolution with Jehovah's witnesses who worked for my grandma's company in El Salvador. They're usually nice people (though having them as family would be awkward because of the whole "shunning your non-Jehovah family" thing) and model employees. They're a lot less annoying then telemarketers - then again, proselytization is not for everyone and I understand why some countries like Singapore would ban them.
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Post by DivaDancerLara on Jan 27, 2009 10:06:35 GMT -5
Yup, that's a saddening thing, same justification that sends them into foreign lands to commit cultural genocide. They target the poor and vulnerable too, using the biblical parable 'a rich man can not reach heaven' to justify this. Now however note that I still can't misjudge the intentions and good-nature of these Christians. They only wish to serve their interpretation of God and also in their own way 'serve' you by leading you to Christ hence 'saving your soul'. A friend of mine told me of one case where his friend broke down and cried in front of him. When he asked 'why are you crying?', his friend replied 'because you are such a nice person, I don't want you to go to hell'. O.O Christians claim to not follow a religion, but rather -> a 'relationship with Christ' - attempting to reverse all the stereotypes assorted with religion while at the same time they practice the same traits of religion itself (hence enforce the 'hypocrit' label even more). In the end I guess what you call yourself doesn't really matter, it's what you do. I attempted being outspoken once, not to condemn them, but to confront the issues of their intolerance face to face, but they would have none of it. They ask me in return "You are asking us to be tolerant of religions that send people to hell?" Heh, oh well I've tried. When I asked why they fear even listening to another person's point of view, my girlfriend who is Christian replied to me, "it is because their faith is weak". So I guess you get the "Christians", and then you get the Christians. There are many small branches and Christians inside the various Churches who do have their own individual thinking and really practice a 'relationship with Christ' rather that following a text/religion which has been historically revised for political reasons throughout Roman Catholic history. They believe that spirituality is a path with choices that each individual has to make for himself/herself. So intolerance is out of the question for them. These Christians are rare though, in fact, their mentality if outspoken has the potential to alienate them from the rest of the community. Hence these branches are not as widespread either. They live very humble lives as well, their ministry never asks for offering (unlike mainstream churches that ask every service and even ask for 10%, etc). They don't have the material resources to afford expensive buildings, sports cars for the pastors/ministers, high class living accomodations, brilliant musical performances, etc. But their message is pure, and believe or not (I've seen it happen), God provides somehow. Heh sorry for this lengthy post, but I just hope I can bring some understanding as well behind Christian thought, intolerance, and the fact that Christians, like any people part of any group -> are still individuals. (I'm trying to be fair I guess ) I empathize when I hear of your negative experiences with Christians but for you to stereotype ALL of Christianity because of your personal experiences is not fair. The majority of Christians are not so judgemental. I don't ever say or follow the logic of telling people they are going to hell. That is not what we are put on earth hear for. Its the issue of becoming closer to God which is what I push and that it is a good thing. There are some strong messages in the Bible but they should never be used to condemn someone. It is but that is the ignorance of that person. That person does not speak for me or represent me.Christians can speak quite strongly but sometimes that is a testimony to their faith all negative messages you recieve discard as their ignorance.
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Post by dipsydoodle on Jan 27, 2009 12:11:49 GMT -5
The issue I have with religion is trying to start my own. There's no way I could ever follow anyone else's--I'm far too vain to be a follower. I figure I can do better so I have a website where I'm laying the groundwork for my religion. So far, though, no one cares. Which is encouraging to the extent that people aren't blindly following but it might mean they only care about mainstream religions. Besides, my religion is not feel-good. It's kind of a harsh, play-the-hand-you-re-dealt-and-shut-up sort of thing. No proselytizing either so I can't give you the link. You'll have to find it yourself and good luck with that.
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Post by admin on Jan 27, 2009 13:08:47 GMT -5
The issue I have with religion is trying to start my own. There's no way I could ever follow anyone else's--I'm far too vain to be a follower. I figure I can do better so I have a website where I'm laying the groundwork for my religion. So far, though, no one cares. Which is encouraging to the extent that people aren't blindly following but it might mean they only care about mainstream religions. Besides, my religion is not feel-good. It's kind of a harsh, play-the-hand-you-re-dealt-and-shut-up sort of thing. No proselytizing either so I can't give you the link. You'll have to find it yourself and good luck with that. OK, you may get some followers eventually, but you're never going to get RICH off that religion.
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Post by dipsydoodle on Jan 27, 2009 17:57:36 GMT -5
It's not intended as a get-rich-quick type religion although I've given those some thought. The problem is, I have a conscience--a pathetically paltry one to be sure but it's there. I just can't bring myself to do the things these idiots do to make money. I can't beg. I have too much pride. I can't sell people worthless crap knowing that it's just worthless crap--prayer hankies, little vials of blessed water, vitamins, etc. I can't bring myself to ask people to mail me their problems along with money and I'll pray for them. I can't bear to see sick or disabled people coming to me for help when I know I'm the biggest phony that ever walked the earth.
I can't even ask for simple donations. I do not beg. I can understand when public radio or something does it because they get no federal funding and people complain about their programming but admit that they don't donate--so those who donate get their programming and if you don't donate then don't complain. That's okay. But donating to me because people think I'm some holy bigshot doesn't work for me.
It's not a feel-good religion but it is the truth. It ain't pretty but its castor oil for the soul. Cleans you right out but be careful what you wish for.
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Post by betahat on Jan 28, 2009 3:35:56 GMT -5
I only date girls who like a good steak. Trust me, you haven't lived until you've eaten slightly warmed up cow flesh.
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Post by blunthammer on Jan 28, 2009 13:27:32 GMT -5
Do you mind if we take a look at it? The issue I have with religion is trying to start my own. There's no way I could ever follow anyone else's--I'm far too vain to be a follower. I figure I can do better so I have a website where I'm laying the groundwork for my religion. So far, though, no one cares. Which is encouraging to the extent that people aren't blindly following but it might mean they only care about mainstream religions. Besides, my religion is not feel-good. It's kind of a harsh, play-the-hand-you-re-dealt-and-shut-up sort of thing. No proselytizing either so I can't give you the link. You'll have to find it yourself and good luck with that.
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Post by blunthammer on Jan 29, 2009 15:34:16 GMT -5
laugh i am hindu and i think it is important for the good girl to respect the hindu. I think a girl cannot make the good wife if she did not follow the hindu rules did many girls here believing that?
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Post by blunthammer on Jan 29, 2009 15:37:07 GMT -5
Wow your story reminds me of my own. I can still remember the year I was truly "awakened" from all that mindless brainwashing. In my opinion it takes a strong person to steer away from the established or popular train of thought. Good for you...my mom who is approaching her older years will randomly talk about how I should adopt religion for the most ridiculous of reasoning. I actually get a headache but can see how as people get older they are likely to embrace religion a lot more since most people are afraid to die. Plus the whole "I am special" argument so by "right" there is an automatic afterlife. Apparently there is no afterlife for lassie or winnie the pooh though....cause their not "special" enough..boo hooo Oh and betahat I have yet to meet a Jehovah's witness. By the sound of it it seems like they are the "cool" one's. Although, I was raised Christian, I don't think I ever genuinely believed there was a God. I just said there was because that was what I'd been told in Church and in school. As I grew up, about age 13ish, my own logic began to destabilize those "beliefs" I had - in quotes, because my Christianity never had any impact on my actions. I gradually realised the dangers of groupthink, how the written word is open to self-interested interpretation, how real meaning can be lost in translation over hundreds of years and the outright contradictions of various religions with solid scientific facts. This was reinforced by reading Dawkins, Orwell and other great authors. That said, I get on fine with religious people. I don't begin telling them why I think they're wrong, unless they begin to preach to me. I don't raise my voice, I just tell them calmly (in the case of a Jehovah's witness) the many reasons why I might not want to decline a blood tranfusion. Usually it ends, with them saying something like "You just don't understand" or "It's just what I think". So to answer your question, No - I've never really had issues with religion.
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Post by EA Observer on Jan 29, 2009 17:32:42 GMT -5
I have lots of issues with religion.
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