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Post by betahat on Jun 7, 2010 2:48:05 GMT -5
The controversy on the Paraguayan team is that they have four nationalized Argentines on the team - 3 have a Paraguayan parent, and the other has lived and played in Paraguay for many years. It's not really about race per se, though the Argentine players might be perceived as being more "European" than the average Paraguayan player (though in truth the range in looks for the Paraguayan born players runs the spectrum from indigenous to pretty damned white). It's more about the perceived opportunism of the Argentine players who couldn't make the Argentine side but still wanted to play.
Then again, it was you Ganbare who said " I don't mind the Korean team being trained by a foreign coach but does 90% of the French team has to be Black? " Isn't that statement making race an issue?
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Post by Ganbare! on Jun 7, 2010 3:47:44 GMT -5
^I don't mind not feeling represented nor despising my national team at an individual scale however when collectively people, certain politicians and the media start to go into that kind of debate you know racial tensions are rife and people have mixed loyalty towards their country. Bringing this debate to an unrelated domain reveals people feel the issue is still unsolved by governments, instability at a state level is undesirable.
If there is a difference between me and most people it is not because of a cynical "do as I say, not as I do" belief rather than being the avatar of globalization myself, as I'm EA, binational, evolving in an international environment and soon involved in transnational public policy. You've probably noticed by now my personality is too unusual to be understood by traditional, narrow criteria such as patriotism, ethnic loyalty or even social status..
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Post by milkman's baby on Jun 13, 2010 12:13:54 GMT -5
Just goes to show that Americans are even good at things we're not even interested in.
Just kidding. lol But seriously, Americans don't watch soccer. It's not in our blood. Nevertheless, USA! USA!
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Post by betahat on Jun 13, 2010 17:11:57 GMT -5
I'm glad not to be neither a British football fan nor a relative of their goalie. Good to see an African side winning today and to see the usual ruthless efficiency from the Germans. They're a lot harder to hate with all the (ethnic) Turks, Poles, Brazillians they have playing for them.
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Post by LaFace on Jun 14, 2010 3:46:01 GMT -5
Really really cannot wait for Italy vs Paraguay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111one!!!111
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Post by betahat on Jun 14, 2010 15:23:43 GMT -5
Damn, Paraguay should have won but we'll take the draw. They got a real gift on that corner though. Now we hope for a Slovakia-Kiwi draw tomorrow.
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Post by LaFace on Jun 14, 2010 23:32:08 GMT -5
Damn, Paraguay should have won but we'll take the draw. They got a real gift on that corner though. Now we hope for a Slovakia-Kiwi draw tomorrow. lol Should have won? Surely you're not being serious... there is absolutely no logic to suggest that Paraguay deserved 3 points. A draw was fair at best for the South Americans. Absolutely you will take the draw, as it's a better result than a loss - a win was never in question. I'd expect you to qualify from the group though, I was impressed with the defence. Italy completely dominated the game, and I'm sure if you read any neutral post-match review, it will agree. edit: I actually find this to be a great neutral site for post-match analysis - www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/15/italy-1-1-paraguay-tactics/#more-3530Paraguay were holding on for the draw at the end. Granted you scored a fair goal, but it was always obvious that Italy were going to equalise one way or another, whether it was influenced by goal keeping error or not. Italy attacked the entire game and were the only ones trying to create in your half of the ground. We simply passed the ball at will around your guys, but unfortunately could not create a second goal to claim victory and all three points. Still, first game in the wet out the way which will kick off the campaign. Paraguay are a defensively sound team, and I was pleased with the way Italy simply controlled the passing of the match. As for the stereotype of Italy being divers, I think Vera wouldn't have been proud of the way he went about it last night. There was a Paraguayan lucky to not get a red card in the first half for the studs-up tackle on Montolivo's shin. Looked very ugly. Then again, Camoranesi was tinkering on the edge of getting a couple yellows himself.
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Post by helles on Jun 15, 2010 8:40:45 GMT -5
England are such heartbreakers... you know they are gonna choke but you always end up rooting for them and hoping, just maybe, there is a slight glimmer of hope. but no. let's hope they make it to a respectable quarters place.
I'm also rooting for Argentina - i've some how supported them since the 1990 world cup (my grandma got mad at me i preferred cheering for Maradonna to Gazza), when i didnt even know who was who... and also Spain.
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Post by betahat on Jun 15, 2010 9:37:18 GMT -5
^ a win was never in question.
Except for the 20 minutes when we were leading of course. I'm sure Italian fans were sweating a little (just like I did in the last 10 minutes when Italy finally began to apply pressure)! I agree that based on the balance of play a draw was the deserved outcome (which we were obviously playing for). By "should" I do not mean we "deserved" to win but that being up one goal, and with our defense playing so rock solid - our Catennacio would make an Italian coach proud - there was a reasonable chance we could have kept our lead. It's not like the Italians had great scoring chances and it was only a matter of time that they broke through - after all, the goal came on a cheap keeper blunder (though granted not nearly as bad as the goal allowed by England). I was more worried that the Italians were going to get a penalty since everytime Paraguay made a clean challenge in the box the Italians went down like they hit with sniper fire. Obviously cheap goals are a fact of life in world cup football - heck, as an Italian fan you have to be sympathetic after recently winning and losing a World Cup on penalties, the cheapest way to win or lose in football - and even the best teams like Italy and Brazil have needed "cheap" goals and a bit of luck to win the Cup.
"Italy completely dominated the game"
I wouldn't go that far - maybe "dominated possession" is right, but those aren't the same thing. You can't even begin to compare Italian "dominance" in that game to what the Germans, Dutch or Argentines did. The Italians had a bit more possession (57-43) and more shots (4-1) but none of the shots were very threatening, and the Italians looked a bit flat to me. Possession was similar in all four games, but I don't think any neutral observer would conclude that Italy "dominated" the game, at least compared to those other sides. It's not like Villar was playing amazing the way the Nigerian keeper was. Of course Italy is still a favorite to win, but this was hardly a "statement" game that will put fear into other teams, unlike what I expect to see from Brazil and Spain and we've already seen from Germany (and to a much lesser extent Argentina and the Netherlands). I think neutral observers would agree that while Italy passed the ball well around the midfield and in their own half they lacked that creative spark and final touch to create genuine scoring chances. They really missed Pirlo.
Then again, given all the criticism from the Italian press, the poor friendly performances and the lowered expectations I think some Italians will think that their team actually surpassed expectations and will draw encouragement from this result.
Glad to see the Kiwis draw even today (though as an Aussie and an Italy supporter you must have mixed feelings). The next game against Slovakia IS the world cup for us.
As for flopping, I thought Haedo Valdez might have flopped on the play that got the free kick but I'm not sure about Vera. Maybe need to see the replays again. Camoranesi definitely made some dangerous tackles and might have deserved more than one yellow, but can't begin to compare to the destruction by De Jong on the Netherlands.
Of course, no one on either Italy or Paraguay is a world class flopper like Cristiano Ronaldo, on full display today (though that was a heck of a free kick he put off the post). Italy is certainly in the discussion for most flopping country of all time (Fabio Grosso in 2006 anyone?), but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing necessarily. Creating and exaggerating contact and drawing calls from referees is an important skill in football (and other sports like basketball) and part of the game and its traditions, and some of the greatest players in the history of the game were world class floppers (or handball cheaters in Henry and Maradona's cases or instigators like Materazzi). So don't take it as a derogatory comment - it's a kind of grudging compliment. Many of the best countries and players are world class floppers.
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Post by betahat on Jun 15, 2010 21:20:15 GMT -5
Wow, go North Korea! Either North Korea is really good (and not the worst team in this year's world cup) or Brazil was a bit off today. They crushed the spread. Sure Brazil dominated possession and shots (though in the first half they were all pretty weak shots) but people expected them to win by 3 or more goals. Goes to show how effective defensive tactics can be when implemented by a disciplined and organized team. Based on today I think North Korea could maybe win against Cote D'Ivoire or Portugal making the Group of Death even deadlier.
The funniest part of the match is when they showed the small North Korean cheering section, and the announcer said that they weren't really North Korean fans but paid Chinese actors. Really?!
So far the Asian teams are far surpassing expectations. Half of me hopes they keep it up!
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tbw
Full Member
Posts: 332
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Post by tbw on Jun 20, 2010 11:16:47 GMT -5
Yay for NZ doing so well tonight Pity some people like to fall down and act in agony alot only to be all better after the free kick is awarded.
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Post by betahat on Jun 20, 2010 16:13:31 GMT -5
The Italians and the Brazilians are the best at that, which is probably why they have won the most world cups. Amazing tie for New Zealand and gives Paraguay a great chance to win the group (Italy-Holland next round !?!).
Glad Paraguay played a more offensive game against Slovakia. Wish they had come out with that style against Italy but maybe they showed the Italians a bit too much respect. So far South America is dominating the World Cup. Asia and Africa a bit fizzled out, though you have to think Korea and Japan and Ghana still have a decent chance of going through.
tbw, as an Aussie can you really root for New Zealand, or is it just that you like the big underdogs?
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palavore
Full Member
I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I make gold posts.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Posts: 298
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Post by palavore on Jun 22, 2010 19:44:29 GMT -5
What happened to France? They got eliminated and didn't even win a match. Lol! England is headed down the same road.
I wish South Africa was still in it, I kinda liked the movie, Invictus--about when South Africa hosted and won the Rugby World Cup in 1995. They won again in 2007. I guess you can't be the underdog forever.
North Korea played well against Brazil, but lost badly (7:0) to Portugal. I feel bad for them right now. At least South Korea is still holding up. Imagine what their team would be like if there was just one Korea. Kick ass, I'm sure.
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Post by betahat on Jun 23, 2010 0:00:48 GMT -5
Apparently Domenech should have put more Scorpios on the team.
Strangely I find myself cheering for the USA tomorrow, if only so the sport gets a higher profile here (and hopefully displaces baseball or NASCAR).
As for North Korea, I heard they didn't have real fans there - just paid Chinese actors. Sounds like a sweet gig to me. I wonder what the repercussions of that loss were IN North Korea - whether fearless leader ordered more kids to go to soccer camps or instead declared that soccer was forbidden and was to be replaced with intensive table tennis competitions.
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Post by davidbleo on Jun 23, 2010 1:07:14 GMT -5
Mexico will win the World Cup!!!!!!!!!! XD So, I voted "other"... but seriously I think the Netherlands or Germany have real chances... the Netherlands deserves their first Cup!!! And I'd like an African team to win the Cup... but that seems practically impossible right now! Australia and NZ are doing well... or at least better than expected!!! And I don't think an European team, besides NL and Germany have any real chance... Europeans don't do well outside Europe!!! I wanted Mexico and the US to end at the first spot of their respective groups for them to have a chance to see each other in the quarter finals!!!! But now Mexico will have a hard time against Argentina and MARADONA!!!! =O I was impressed by the North Korean team at their first match against Brazil!!! And I'm quite sure even the North Koreans know they played well and played with a big heart!!! I hope they can say goodbye to South Africa with a victory against Côte d'Ivore!! =) Jersey the Mexican team wore during the 1998 World Cup in France... the best football jersey ever... Original, Mexican in theme and brand... now all Adidas jerseys are the same but with different colours!!!
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