Post by betahat on Feb 2, 2009 14:39:22 GMT -5
The issue is not the Latin language per se but the Good Friday Prayer contained in the standard Latin prayer book:
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A prayer for the conversion of the Jews sidelined from Roman Catholic liturgy in the 1960s may stage a surprise comeback, when Pope Benedict is expected to allow broader use of the old Latin Mass.
Church reforms in the 1960s replaced Latin with local languages in the liturgy, reached out to other religions and struck texts that Jews found particularly offensive, such as a Good Friday prayer referring to "perfidious Jews".
Benedict's decree is due to revive a 1962 Latin prayer book that removed the word "perfidious" but left standing prayers for their conversion that ask God to "take the veil" off Jewish hearts and show mercy "even for the Jews," Church sources said.
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Now this kind of thing doesn't bother me, any more than having Mormons posthumously convert and baptise me or my ancestors as Mormons (which led many Jewish groups to cut off relations with the Mormons recently). But I could see how Jews might see it as problematic, even if they remove the word "perfidious" (or whatever it is in Latin).
Kant's discussion of justice may not be abstract, but it is compared to most people's understanding of their religion. The 10 commandments are not a thought experiment or a transcendental principal based on a reason but a bunch of dictates from an angry and jealous God to a guy on a mountaintop. I think it is a stretch to go from "Kant shows that reason and principles of justice common to many religions are in perfect harmony" to "Kant shows that reason and religion are in perfect harmony." I think you admitted as much earlier - Kant pretty much throws out all the other trappings of religion - but then you are left with pretty thin gruel. Well, maybe that is too harsh - I guess it depends on what each individual believer thinks they get out of their faith. I would guess that eternal life would probably rate above "reasonable principals of earthly justice" in most cases though.
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A prayer for the conversion of the Jews sidelined from Roman Catholic liturgy in the 1960s may stage a surprise comeback, when Pope Benedict is expected to allow broader use of the old Latin Mass.
Church reforms in the 1960s replaced Latin with local languages in the liturgy, reached out to other religions and struck texts that Jews found particularly offensive, such as a Good Friday prayer referring to "perfidious Jews".
Benedict's decree is due to revive a 1962 Latin prayer book that removed the word "perfidious" but left standing prayers for their conversion that ask God to "take the veil" off Jewish hearts and show mercy "even for the Jews," Church sources said.
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Now this kind of thing doesn't bother me, any more than having Mormons posthumously convert and baptise me or my ancestors as Mormons (which led many Jewish groups to cut off relations with the Mormons recently). But I could see how Jews might see it as problematic, even if they remove the word "perfidious" (or whatever it is in Latin).
Kant's discussion of justice may not be abstract, but it is compared to most people's understanding of their religion. The 10 commandments are not a thought experiment or a transcendental principal based on a reason but a bunch of dictates from an angry and jealous God to a guy on a mountaintop. I think it is a stretch to go from "Kant shows that reason and principles of justice common to many religions are in perfect harmony" to "Kant shows that reason and religion are in perfect harmony." I think you admitted as much earlier - Kant pretty much throws out all the other trappings of religion - but then you are left with pretty thin gruel. Well, maybe that is too harsh - I guess it depends on what each individual believer thinks they get out of their faith. I would guess that eternal life would probably rate above "reasonable principals of earthly justice" in most cases though.
Then phrase it that way. Don't be all trying to act like you're some innocent, inquisitive mind now. If you're here to ask what's on people's minds, then the general rule is not to troll them first. But if you're going to be a troll, then don't be a coward about it. 
