Raising a EA daughter

[amalgam]

I must say dude your posts really intrigue me. I'm sure your child, just like us, will learn from life experiences anyway you get what I mean? How else will he/she grow if there is nothing to put your child down, hard times to grind him/her and mountains to climb get what I mean? In the end, things will turn out right, it's you as parents that can guide your child into the right way, not the environment... Examples would be you, your girlfriend etc.

ALSO, I find it funny how you wanna get out of this country haha! I just wanna get outta here because it's so damn boring, but, maybe not permanently. By the way, you don't need a university degree. Try TAFE. Get a CISCO networking degree and reel in the cash... Network people being one of the most highly demanded employees in the world.

[cm]

Mar 3, 2009 13:00:52 GMT -5 jefe said:

^ then you contradicted yourself.

Raising an EA in a white neighborhood is "worst thing you can do for your child" -- worst than what? raising it in the first place?

The analogous statement would be that eating bread is the worst that you can do if you are hungry. The choice IS to starve instead of eating. There is still a choice.

Still, I don't understand your meaning really. Suppose that the area was 30% White (various ethnic groups), 30% Black (various ethnic groups), 30% Latino (various national origins, racial backgrounds and degree of assimilation), 10% middle Eastern or Native American -- A very diverse group of people, but the EA kid could still be labelled the *oriental* one in the class.

And is being raised in a 100% white neighborhood that much worse than a 100% Asian neighborhood (where they call u the *white* guy)? How about a neighborhood that is mostly black with a small Latino minority?

Don't preoccupy yourself with the minutia. It doesn't help your argument. Saying worst thing you can do is more of a figure of speech. Of course there are tons of worse things you can do for your kid than raising them in a white neighborhood.

It's 100 times better to raise an EA in the west in an all Asian area. Asians at the very least know what it's like to be a minority in the country and that's something you can already relate to.

And again for the diverse neighborhood, the implications are that you will be around people of your race. Metropolitan areas. Stick to them. Stay away from white suburbs.

[jefe]

^ Actually, I am not trying to make an argument at al. I am trying to understand yours. Sorry if you interpret that as overindulgence in minutia.

Actually, when I mentioned "all Asian" neighborhoods, I was not thinking merely of west coast USA, but also other places, such as Hawaii, Guam, Singapore, HK, Okinawa, etc., where Asians may not be conscious of being a minority in a country.

I have met Asian-Americans who grew up in Iowa, Minnesota, Idaho, Montana, in 99% white towns, as well as some who grew up in Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, etc. in areas that are something like 50-60% white / 40-50% black and highly segregated (actually, not unlike the area I grew up in near Washington, DC.). Despite growing up in circumstances such as these, I don't think in general that their upbringing is that much worse that those that had large Asian minority populations. Indeed, growing up in an area that, say has 30-35% Asian and 40-50% white (with others around) where different groups segregate themselves, a Eurasian might feel very left out, forced to join in with other groups that actively segregate themselves from the others. And any group that lets them participate with them will remind them that their participation is tenuous as they carry the marks of the opposing tribe, and risk getting ousted at the slightest infraction.

I have had Asian-Americans being friendly to me, then acting very nasty to my Caucasian mother when they met -- or white relatives completely bombast my Asian relatives in very evil ways. If an EA grows up in a mixed Asian / Caucasian neighborhood and faced this daily, they actually may experience many problems that a less divisive neighborhood would offer.

This would not likely happen in an area that is, 98% white and 1% Asian. However, it is very likely to happen in an area that is 55% white, 40% black and 1-2% Asian. But there Asians would get singled out, having to learn other ways to cope.

[Miyuki]

Mar 3, 2009 10:26:27 GMT -5 cm said:

Firstly, even White kids are best raised in multi-cultural neighborhoods.

Secondly, who wants to be know as 'Asian Johnny!' at their school as they are growing up? Being a minority in a white neighborhood will make you stick out for that...being a minority.

I've grown up in mostly Mexican and White schools and got that tag stuck on me, as well as 'wtf are you?' every other day. Now that I'm in a University with 40% Asians I feel completely at home. You're judged for being you, and not for your race. It's the best feeling in the world.

Asian/mixed asian kids raised in white areas tend to be the most self-conscious self-hating types. Sure, you can point to case studies that disprove this generalization, but for the most part it is true.

It's better to raise your kid in a white school, than a ghetto school. At the same time,if you can, raise them in a multicultural area where they can experience both of their cultures.

I'm sorry to hear that you had a tough time in school because of your background. Glad to hear you've found your place in Uni.

It's interesting how different all of our experiences have been. For some of us, being different has built character and strength, and in others it's created as you said, self hate.

Many diverse highschools end up self segregating, which I think can be a bad thing too. Just a thought.

[Subuatai]

Mar 3, 2009 19:37:04 GMT -5 @amalgam said:

I must say dude your posts really intrigue me. I'm sure your child, just like us, will learn from life experiences anyway you get what I mean? How else will he/she grow if there is nothing to put your child down, hard times to grind him/her and mountains to climb get what I mean? In the end, things will turn out right, it's you as parents that can guide your child into the right way, not the environment... Examples would be you, your girlfriend etc.

ALSO, I find it funny how you wanna get out of this country haha! I just wanna get outta here because it's so damn boring, but, maybe not permanently. By the way, you don't need a university degree. Try TAFE. Get a CISCO networking degree and reel in the cash... Network people being one of the most highly demanded employees in the world.

Yes it's true we can't shelter our children too much. But why should they have to put up with s*** they simply can't control - such as their race. It'll take 18 years to raise a child into adulthood, that's a long time. If anything I'd rather they put up with s*** they can control, challenges to be overcome in life that has nothing to do with race.

The only challenge they'll face through racism is learning how 'monoracials are f---wits'. Heh

As for getting out of the country, multiculturalism in Asia is much more real then multiculturalism in Australia which me and my partner recently learnt in our travels. As for information technology it's too difficult for me to wrap my mind around, not really my field unfortunately.

[amalgam]

It is quite unfortunate, at least in a properly multicultural society, we can be proud that we are mixed rather than have to grow up ashamed of it, actually, this brings back memories of my school days... Sometimes wishing I was full Caucasian or Asian. You know what dude, it's true that your child can't control his/her race, but try as best as you can to let her know that being mixed is 100% awesome if you get what I'm trying to say.

As for a perfect multicultural, non-racist society, we can only dream haha! :-\

What are your future career plans anyway?

[Subuatai]

Heh well I'm also worried about my child starting to adopt a 'multiracial supremacy' thing going on in response to monoracial's discrimination. I've noticed this sort of supremacy to be very subtle these days, but at the same time... "We are the future of humanity!" is only the first step to eventually entertaining such interesting thoughts like "Monoracials have no more purpose on this earth!" "Only way to free humanity from racism is to rid the world from monoracials" "Just as humans evolved from apes, we will now evolve from monoracials!"

My future career plan is to build a hotel and manage it, hoping to retire with it. Unfortunately I'm still studying the course part time. We are financially stable enough for each other but admittedly, we are not financially ready for our child. I hate to admit it but looks like for a year might need to claim family assistance. Oh well on the plus side (and to make myself feel better)... I can just see centerlink as a 'fortnightly tax return' since I pay that amount while working ne way!

[amalgam]

I've noticed that too! To be honest, I'm sure those thoughts have crossed some of our minds, like with me for example, when I see racist whites I tend of how greater we Eurasians are when compared to them genetically etc. It's like, not my natural chain of thought, just my quiet retaliation to their futile ranting (taking in note that they probably have an inferiority complex deep inside being so defensive about 'pure white blood'). I've also had thoughts cross my mind in terms of "mixed races are the future of mankind", "it's just evolution" etc. Although these thoughts come and go, ultimately, it was my environment and my experiences that have shaped the way I think of race, everyone being equal. Same thing in your situation, if you raise your children in that environment, without the racial hatred for monoracial people (in contradiction to monoracial [Aussie/White Pride] hating other races), your children will be fine. If you are REALLY concerned, make sure they don't take biology in high school and learn about that forbidden word... (hybrid vigor !!)... Nah that was a joke.

Another thought is how sad I am that the term Australian is being increasingly returned to "white Australian" and other races, even those who could be 3rd generation Australian (in my case 2nd). It's like, once I have a hint of other blood, people can't understand how I'm Australian because I'm 'impure'. It's like, the standard for Australian is once again 'white Australian', we are going back in history. You know what I sometimes dream of? A nation filled with multiracial people WITHOUT racism... think of the harmony between cream, beige, blue orange and purple people!

And about your career! Go hard man! I'll umm, stay in your hotel for sure sometime, I do live in Sydney after all! What do you work as right now? And hey! you're right! Centrelink is my... Umm... Economic stimulus package, supplier... YEAH! I am doing the economy a favour by taking money from it and saving it makeing it harder for the economy to grow meaning it will grow stronger in future... It's just like pruning leaves on a plant.

By the way I forgot if I've mentioned or not, I'd like to raise Eurasian kids in the future too so we are both in the same boat.

[cm]

Mar 4, 2009 3:55:07 GMT -5 Miyuki said:

I'm sorry to hear that you had a tough time in school because of your background. Glad to hear you've found your place in Uni.

It's interesting how different all of our experiences have been. For some of us, being different has built character and strength, and in others it's created as you said, self hate.

Many diverse highschools end up self segregating, which I think can be a bad thing too. Just a thought.

Being 'different' does not create self hate in my case. It creates a motivation to get to the top. I don't hate my Jewish background at all.

Being in a diverse high school, there is always going to be some form of self segregating. But at least in that 'self-segregating environment', you can find a group that you belong to. When you are in an all white environment, who are you to fall back on?

I went to a whiter high school for almost a year and absolutely hated it. I transferred to a high school, and was accepted by all my Asian and Mexican friends. Lets face the reality, even if you're half white, the drop of minority blood makes you a minority and not one of them.

[cm]

I have met Asian-Americans who grew up in Iowa, Minnesota, Idaho, Montana, in 99% white towns, as well as some who grew up in Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, etc. in areas that are something like 50-60% white / 40-50% black and highly segregated (actually, not unlike the area I grew up in near Washington, DC.).
Despite growing up in circumstances such as these, I don't think in general that their upbringing is that much worse that those that had large Asian minority populations

Asians brought up in those types of populations tend to lack confidence, or tend to become completely whitewashed. Ashamed of their own heritage, trying to avoid Asian or any minority like the plague.

. Indeed, growing up in an area that, say has 30-35% Asian and 40-50% white (with others around) where different groups segregate themselves, a Eurasian might feel very left out,

Growing up in those demographics, there are likely other Eurasians. You won't necessarily make friends with them, but the fact that there are other EA's gives people in that area experience dealing with EA's. They won't look at you like a freak in those areas because EA's are more common.

forced to join in with other groups that actively segregate themselves from the others. And any group that lets them participate with them will remind them that their participation is tenuous as they carry the marks of the opposing tribe, and risk getting ousted at the slightest infraction.

Better to be part of a 'segregated' group you fit in, than a loner in a white community.

[Subuatai]

Mar 4, 2009 18:09:04 GMT -5 @amalgam said:

I've noticed that too! To be honest, I'm sure those thoughts have crossed some of our minds, like with me for example, when I see racist whites I tend of how greater we Eurasians are when compared to them genetically etc. It's like, not my natural chain of thought, just my quiet retaliation to their futile ranting (taking in note that they probably have an inferiority complex deep inside being so defensive about 'pure white blood'). I've also had thoughts cross my mind in terms of "mixed races are the future of mankind", "it's just evolution" etc. Although these thoughts come and go, ultimately, it was my environment and my experiences that have shaped the way I think of race, everyone being equal. Same thing in your situation, if you raise your children in that environment, without the racial hatred for monoracial people (in contradiction to monoracial [Aussie/White Pride] hating other races), your children will be fine. If you are REALLY concerned, make sure they don't take biology in high school and learn about that forbidden word... (hybrid vigor !!)... Nah that was a joke.

Heh I know exactly what you mean bro. I spent quite some time going "We are the future, purebloods can get f--ked", "Racially insecure f--kwits can get gased!", hahaha. Youthful times, still funny to think about

I was lucky to have grown up from it, but remnants of that mentality still persists. Hence I'm worried for my children. Well, migrating was my first choice! But can't do it unfortunately.

Another thought is how sad I am that the term Australian is being increasingly returned to "white Australian" and other races, even those who could be 3rd generation Australian (in my case 2nd). It's like, once I have a hint of other blood, people can't understand how I'm Australian because I'm 'impure'. It's like, the standard for Australian is once again 'white Australian', we are going back in history. You know what I sometimes dream of? A nation filled with multiracial people WITHOUT racism... think of the harmony between cream, beige, blue orange and purple people!

Yup. During my teens I used to go "Aussie Aussie Aussie!" and "Oi Oi Oi!" with pride and national identity. Nowadays, I go "What the f*** is to be proud about this country?" It's very sad, it's sheer painful to be unable to feel proud about the land you were born in.

Turco-Mongols nations in central Asia have a long running ancient tradition of 'not giving a flying f--k about race'. Many believe that it's our downfall, but nonetheless, they still have pride in this cultural aspect and views on race. Only problem is - those countries are poor and not many people care

I guess that's the reason why despite being born and raised in Australia. I find it completely impossible to assimilate

And about your career! Go hard man! I'll umm, stay in your hotel for sure sometime, I do live in Sydney after all! What do you work as right now? And hey! you're right! Centrelink is my... Umm... Economic stimulus package, supplier... YEAH! I am doing the economy a favour by taking money from it and saving it makeing it harder for the economy to grow meaning it will grow stronger in future... It's just like pruning leaves on a plant.

I'm a lowly bartender/cook at the moment. Working two jobs while studying. Only bring in $1000 a week BEFORE FREAKIN TAX!!! Heh, so I shall have to think of centerlink's family assistance as 'reclaiming my own freakin' money!'

By the way I forgot if I've mentioned or not, I'd like to raise Eurasian kids in the future too so we are both in the same boat.

Heh easily done, marry another Eurasian.
Though they might become quadracial/quadcultural like in my child's case but oh well, too late to say 'no' nowadays.

[amalgam]

Actually, my children MIGHT run out of fingers to count with when it comes to their blood nationality, I already have four major races in me (English, Irish, Chinese, Indonesian... Apparently both my parents may have more races from their sides than I know so, yeah!).

Is your girlfriend on EurasianNation?

Hey! Come to a Sydney meet-up! I'm not in school anymore so I'm available anytime!

[Subuatai]

So you have Anglo, Celtic, Sino, Malaijid/Australoid already

My partner rarely goes on the net, which is a good thing. However I still remember she caught me once on another forum and proceeded to go off at me for talking about her in a negative fashion heh

I'm in a country town, my girlfriend lives in Sydney, Baulkam Hills to be exact. We're planning to find a place in Penrith to start our lives together in due time. If we have time sure, would be nice to meet up. We don't really have a shared social circle unfortunately - so it may be a good idea in the future to make one full of EAs.

[Kush]

Growing up in less than 0.01% Asian suburb, I feel I am obliged to reply to these...

Asians brought up in those types of populations tend to lack confidence

I don't. Although I can understand how that suggestion is founded.

or tend to become completely whitewashed.

In the eyes of the Asian community I am probably completely white-washed but I am young and have much time to make that up. This is due to me not learning Cantonese (so I could not communicate on the same level as my extended family members) and my almost mums complete integration into English culture (with the exception of food).
So I did not get much Asian-exposure, other than the occasional trip to Malaysia.

Ashamed of their own heritage, trying to avoid Asian or any minority like the plague.

Quite the opposite. I am very proud of my Chinese heritage. In fact, I've become rather obsessed ;D
I also have an almost subliminal preference to other minorities. Sometimes I'm not even very subtle about it.

except for "if she looks very Taiwanese" because that could be a very subjective interpretation that varies from day to day and person to person. Actually, I think that this factor is not THAT relevant (as it does not change what her actual family background is.)

If you'd like to know my reasoning for this, here it is from my experience.
My brother who looks very white (like Michael McIntyre-esque) is never singled out as Asian - he is treated by everyone as native white English.
So he doesn't feel the urge to associate with his culture because as far as he is concerned, he is already absorbed in it. He doesn't feel any loss at not being taught Cantonese because he doesn't see it as part of his culture.
I, however, was the complete opposite.

Obviously, I would urge you to teach them in both cases, no matter what they look like. I am just adding the emphasis that a more Asian-looking EA might feel a greater sense of loss when the time comes.

[Subuatai]

I think what Zap is trying to express is the minority crisis. However, 3 levels exist:

1:100 - You are an individual, rarity suits your purposes and people take time to learn about you
1:10 - You are a minority, you are discriminated against, people just think you are scum
1:1 - You are an equal, in status and social recognition

You fall in the 1:100 category, I believe Zap is relating to the 1:10 category. However, this just a rough theory, there are exceptions to this rule as there are to Zap or your rule. Comes down to luck.

For those who wish to make their own luck however. I don't even recommend raising a child in a western country at all to be honest if that can be helped. As much as I wish to say 'hey it was nothing, racism had no effect on me', that's not true. Nowadays as a mature adult sure, I can say that while being stronger, wiser, smarter. But when I was a child? forget it.