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Post by ay1128 on Sept 18, 2009 0:47:49 GMT -5
yes, i believe so, chinese, japanese, korea are different looking than filipino, malaysian, indonesian, etc... and yes they do seem to have a lot more people with western ancestries partly because of there colonial past.
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Post by jefe on Sept 18, 2009 1:13:37 GMT -5
^ China also has quite a bit, much more than they admit, eg,
Dutch and Portuguese settled in Taiwan in the past, and Americans were stationed there in the 1950s / 60s.
Portuguese settled in Macau since the 1500s, and remained there until 1999. Macau always had a significant "mixed" population.
HK has had a significant British presence since 1840, and many *foreign* persons have arrived and settled there ever since.
European settlements persisted in many places in China in the past, eg, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Qingdao, etc. and foreigners have stayed for a period in Beijing for centuries.
Overseas Chinese sometimes sent their *mixed* offspring back to China for education or to find a bride.
I suspect that in certain sections across Greater China (eg, Pearl River Delta, Taiwan, etc.), there is at least some smidge of European ancestry throughout a very significant portion of the population. I would not be surprised if 10-15% of the population could be proven to have some Euro ancestry originating in the past few centuries.
Japanese deposited their seed across Asia during the war, and it got deposited back in many places as well, In Okinawa, it is still going on.
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hypeforlife91
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Post by hypeforlife91 on Sept 18, 2009 1:20:46 GMT -5
^ China also has quite a bit, much more than they admit, eg, Dutch and Portuguese settled in Taiwan in the past, and Americans were stationed there in the 1950s / 60s. Portuguese settled in Macau since the 1500s, and remained there until 1999. Macau always had a significant "mixed" population. HK has had a significant British presence since 1840, and many *foreign* persons have arrived and settled there ever since. European settlements persisted in many places in China in the past, eg, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Qingdao, etc. and foreigners have stayed for a period in Beijing for centuries. Overseas Chinese sometimes sent their *mixed* offspring back to China for education or to find a bride. I suspect that in certain sections across Greater China (eg, Pearl River Delta, Taiwan, etc.), there is at least some smidge of European ancestry throughout a very significant portion of the population. I would not be surprised if 10-15% of the population could be proven to have some Euro ancestry originating in the past few centuries. Japanese deposited their seed across Asia during the war, and it got deposited back in many places as well, In Okinawa, it is still going on. That is true. Macau always has many mixed Portuguese-Chinese peeps. HK has many British-Chinese mixes. My mom is HK Chinese and I have heard her side of the story about that. I believe my dad said he met my mom in HK, but I don't remember. My parents hate talking about their lovey-dovey past, just like most parents lol. >_< However, mainland China having lotsa mixes is a bit new to me. I guess they don't show it as much. And I also know many Eurasian peeps from Okinawa as well. I just think that people think that HK and Japan have the most mixed-race kids because they are more heavily shown in the media in those places. So many HK models are Eurasian, as well as celebs/models in Japan. But then..maybe they dooo in fact have the most...
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Post by ay1128 on Sept 18, 2009 1:47:44 GMT -5
i'll be a bit surprised if China had 10-15% people of mixed ancestry, if you are excluding places such as Xin Jiang, etc; but i don't know for a fact either; but being from TW, i noticed that in TW i haven't really met many people with Euro ancestry; but i have met quite a few with Japanese ancestries. i'm guessing on this part here, but i believed the Dutch settled in Indonesia more than they did in TW, since i believe the indonesia population apparently have quite a fair amount of people with Dutch ancestries.
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Post by jefe on Sept 18, 2009 2:55:09 GMT -5
^ I guess my post was confusing.
I mean that certain REGIONS, esp. the SE coast and Taiwan and have had contact with Europeans for centuries, as well as having experienced overseas emigre returnees, and Euro ancestry is probably mixed into a large portion of the population there.
Of course you would not notice. I bet 90% of them don't even have any inkling that they have any Euro ancestry at all. You have probably met thousands of them and neither you nor they had any awareness of it. For example, I had one colleague who just found out 2 years ago (in her mid 20s) that she has some *mixed* heritage. Her father was born in Peru and was sent back to China as a child. He was not *pure* Chinese, but 5/8 Chinese, with some mestizo (Spanish / Amerindian) heritage. Her mother knew, but had never discussed it with her. She found out from an aunt. In fact, given the social stigma of not being *pure*. many would try to conceal it, even from their own children. MAny just learn by accident that they had an ancestor that was *mixed*.
I would purport that the so-called Chinese population is extremely mixed, 99.99% probably have some non-Han Chinese forebears in the not too distant past, esp. given how the Han Chinese have a history of assimilating minority groups and mixed peoples. In the past century, the Manchu ethnic group has all but disappeared, with HanChinese assimilating millions of its members. In fact, most world populations are very mixed anyhow. You would have to be a member of a remote tribe that has had no contact with outsiders for thousands of years to qualify as a separate breeding population.
I would also purport that the Uyghurs and other groups in Xinjiang might be even less *mixed* than the Han Chinese (despite their appearance telling you otherwise) -- it is just that their population was more variable to begin with and has been in their current location longer. A genetic bottleneck occurred as the population settled East Asia, causing a higher concentration of a more limited gene pool.
Yes, the Dutch were in Taiwan for decades, but in Indonesia for centuries, so there was enough presence to create a separate *Indo* social group in Indonesia. Any Dutch-Chinese in Taiwan would have long assimilated into the Chinese or Dutch populations. But just because anyone that was mixed Dutch in Taiwan has been fully assimilated into the Han population does not mean that there are not hundreds of thousands in Taiwan with a *drop* of Dutch blood.
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Post by ay1128 on Sept 18, 2009 3:56:37 GMT -5
yeah your post actually does make a lot of sense; but it's just kinda surprising to think of chinese as being a highly mixed nationality. Its just that the Chinese whether in China, HK, or TW see themselves as being nothing more than pure blooded Chinese and i haven't met many Chinese plp who felt the way that a large amount of them may have euro ancestry even though they may not know about it.
i don't really know a lot about the ughyur group, but i may be wrong but i always believed alot of these central asian groups to be highly mixed between mongoloid and caucasians, just based on there geographic alone, they stand dead center between the west and east; and i have heard somewhere that the turkish people originally migrated from the areas around Xin Jian and Kazhakistan.
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Post by jefe on Sept 18, 2009 5:37:35 GMT -5
^ I think the phenomenon that Chinese think that they are *full-blooded* Chinese, and that such a thing even exists is a complete load of crap. Han Chinese, as an ethnic group started out in a very small region of the Yellow River valley and expanded by conquering and assimilating outside ethnic groups. The entire Chinese population is very very mixed, and has been so for centuries. In addition to assimilating neighboring (and distant) ethnic groups, they have also been assimilating interracial people for centuries, even millenia, and it is still going on today.
Don't you see the inherent oxymoron between *pure* Chinese and the glorification of Chinese history - that of conquering and assimilating foreign tribes and nationalities? Pure Chinese is like saying Pure Mexican -- what does it mean exactly?
I have seen many studies that suggest that the continent of Eurasia was populated first by people who migrated to Central Asia from Africa via the Middle East. Then groups from Central Asia went separately to East Asia in different waves (eg, the Ainu predated the other east Asians by thousands of years), and other groups went west to Europe. Then, it is only by genetic bottlenecks and genetic drift that the East Asian *Mongoloids* and Caucasians in Europe got differentiated into separate breeding populations. They also would have mixed with earlier inhabitants of each, or other hominid species (Eg, Neanderthals in Europe).
This would imply that both East Asians and Europeans are descendant from the same original Central Asian stock, and formed separate *races* by genetic forces mentioned above as well as intermixing with prior migrants or other humanoid species. In that case, the East Asians and the Europeans might be the *mixed group* descendant from the Central Asian breeding population. In other words, it is possible that the actual phenomenon is the reverse of what you suggested or assumed -- the Central Asian people may not be primarily the result of Caucasian and Mongoloid mixing, but the Mongoloid and Caucasian groups are differentiated descendants from the original Central Asians.
There is also considerable support for this theory.
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Post by Subuatai on Sept 18, 2009 6:49:32 GMT -5
Couldn't have said it better myself, thank you Jefe, I salute you
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Post by catgirl on Sept 26, 2009 18:33:00 GMT -5
I sometimes forget that Im half asian actually. Or maybe it could be that because Im a mix of 3 cultures, its harder for me to identify 100% with all of them!
Also I dont speak vietnamese, and language is an important cultural factor. The outer world rarely sees me as partly asian either (I dont really understand why, cause I see it!).
Parents of half asian kids always tell me that I look more western than their kids.
But I dont really reject my asian side either. Its just that people dont enhance it so much so I forget or something? And I wasnt brought up near my asian relatives to embrace it enough. When Im with Vietnamese people I feel so white... But thats logical I guess?
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Post by Ganbare! on Sept 26, 2009 18:47:01 GMT -5
Scandinavia in general doesn't seem Asian/Eurasian-friendly at all! I consider myself of 3/4 cultures as well not just EA.
I remember rejecting the idea of being Eurasian as a teen, not being around many Asians nor my paternal relatives either didn't help I guess. People here have such differing experiences in terms of environment and self-acceptance that it never gets boring discussing the topic over and over...
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Post by catgirl on Sept 26, 2009 18:52:53 GMT -5
Had any bad experience in scandinavia? I thought USA was even worse, or am I wrong?
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Post by catgirl on Sept 26, 2009 18:55:57 GMT -5
Scandinavia in general doesn't seem Asian/Eurasian-friendly at all! I consider myself of 3/4 cultures as well not just EA. I remember rejecting the idea of being Eurasian as a teen, not being around many Asians nor my paternal relatives either didn't help I guess. People here have such differing experiences in terms of environment and self-acceptance, that it never gets boring discussing the topic over and over... Ive met some 100% asians that are even more culturally and mentally norwegian than I am! Both adopted and non-adopted even.
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Post by Subuatai on Oct 4, 2009 4:55:35 GMT -5
From what I hear, Scandinavian culture (excluding some Finns) can be rather disgustingly racist yet at the same time the exceptions tend to be shine out a lot. One exception can be my wife and my father-in-law. But they are both Swedish-Australians, with my wife being half. So perhaps it doesn't count. It doesn't help me at all to know that my daughter has 1/4 Fennoscandi blood either bleh.
Bah, I'm over this. Or I should be.
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Post by toyomansi on Oct 4, 2009 16:06:22 GMT -5
I think today scandis from big cities are becoming very open to people of different colors and cultures, people are travelling all over the world, exploring different languages and cultures and having mixed relationships (I see soo many black-white couples with mixed babies ^^). But the rural areas are far behind, from my point of view (but still exceptions in many openminded individuals). There is still much xenophobia in my hometown, and I still feel like an alien when I'm there ^^'
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Post by Christina Barrett on Oct 6, 2009 4:26:01 GMT -5
Yes, my mom also knows Dutch culture from 500 years in Indonesia. (I guess I would stop and think if it was coincidence. Like, what if she's more Asian but happens to be forced into it? Also, my dad likes Asian more than some ways but racially seems not to identify.) So, no, but I don't consider myself not white. I thought Chinese was the oldest white culture and European. It's different from African and not less white than Indian as a race. I know there are people who feel a certain way, but people shouldn't point to Vietnam and the Filipins. Africans seem like they're white with a black coat but never look like the strong Indians. What group has a fro but looks Indian? I think in the end I have a hard time relating with African and Capoid|Jew. It's used to compare to Mongoloid, and Chinese is the only thing that seems to be bothered with because it's "not Indian" and is the oldest Asian culture. I don't understand if you use it to be more white|European that you'd be bothered, but when you feel good about yourself you do. I like whoever looks Indian with a fro. I have trouble relating, and I haven't met many mixed people. I met an Egyptian who had two sexy older sisters. She was very tall and had a lot of fat, probably clinically. She wasn't too buff, though, and very round with the round eyes, stereotypical. Her name was Chrissy|Christine Ann|e Bishai. Her family was singers, like in chorus for musicals and things. Of course, most people know the options sometimes list Indian and sometimes Chinese and always Native American. It's not hard to have sexual relations with a Native American because they are considered "culture-less" and pure, whereas the Chinese have lost that in racial relations. As a Eurasian, I felt it was more Asian wanting to be European and European liking being white. A lot of people grew up thinking they had Native American if they were farmers. I know because I looked at our record and saw they listed white and so forth. I find it odd, but Chinese-Indonesian exists and is what it is. It seems more like a benefit and coincidence for me in that I like European and feel that Europeans really didn't like being European. From what I hear, Scandinavian culture (excluding some Finns) can be rather disgustingly racist yet at the same time the exceptions tend to be shine out a lot. One exception can be my wife and my father-in-law. But they are both Swedish-Australians, with my wife being half. So perhaps it doesn't count. It doesn't help me at all to know that my daughter has 1/4 Fennoscandi blood either bleh. Bah, I'm over this. Or I should be. I've been told I shouldn't pine over Asian wanting to be white, and I started to like Indian. I think today scandis from big cities are becoming very open to people of different colors and cultures, people are travelling all over the world, exploring different languages and cultures and having mixed relationships (I see soo many black-white couples with mixed babies ^^). But the rural areas are far behind, from my point of view (but still exceptions in many openminded individuals). There is still much xenophobia in my hometown, and I still feel like an alien when I'm there ^^' It's rare to have an attractive mix in the media. I can honestly say I've never met anyone happy about it. I made a decision in wanting to be European, assimilating my Chinese-Indonesian as a more European version of my American side is all, while I like my American side, as well. I feel that it's more worth it if I were half Italian except that my mom believes my dad is a good person inherently if even attractive. I like his European mix. In the end, I do like Latin American, but I like the ones who look European. If I married a mix, I don't know. I just feel there is less half black and half Asian. I would prefer Indian to Japanese. I don't know much about Egyptian but think I just like Indian. I'm not sure about Indonesian. People haven't been comparing well that they thing Indonesian is European with me. So, I think that's an issue. Why not just marry white? I mean I think so that I will. But, yes, I find other Mongoloids attractive as a Chinese-Indonesian. Most Chinese are different. Like, my skin is tan and pink. It's also very white. It's kind of yellow in a way, gold. Just, it depends on the temperature or light. I wanted to marry a thin dude with a round head who was half Native American. I guess that or one who's all Indian since my skin is gold. Still, I don't feel that if someone is fat that they can be judged for race on skin color since it can be used to flush their skin lighter with a false racial idea, like my dad I mean, who looks a lot darker but in real life he looks at his pink spots when I see him on rare occasion. If you want to respond, what do you think about me thinking of Chinese as just the oldest white race and not a culture like Japan and to find myself more like Indian as in European more since I'm half Chinese-Indonesian? I already get told I'm racist for having light skin. Like, I don't have any problems whatsoever with other Japanese but don't like Anime. Why do Chinese today look like Japanese if the Japanese copied them? I think people need to compare to Chinese and African and assume the rest is either Jew|Jap or white.
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