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Post by Ganbare! on Oct 9, 2009 9:07:28 GMT -5
"Americans and their obsession with racial data in census... And then you wonder why the Union is pretty much a de facto Apartheid state. " I'm sorry, I forgot how France was a beacon of light for race relations  They don't really need a hispanic section - they could just ask whether you speak spanish or not at home and your country of origin. That's almost good enough, though I suppose in a few generations you might find more people who don't speak spanish but are descended from "hispanics." But then those people are basically Americans, no? A black American of cuban or haitian descent who doesn't speak spanish is an African American, not a hispanic. Are you serious? Have you ever lived in a non-multicultural country? I have lived in both and I can tell you race relations are far less tensed in monocultural countries. Is there any national cohesion left in large North American cities? A huge part of the population is segregating itself from the rest of the assimilated/native population. I can't count how many times I've experienced people refusing to interact just because I seem to belong to the wrong race. |
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Post by milkman's baby on Oct 18, 2009 13:30:10 GMT -5
lol As expected, it seems most people in this thread named blacks and Arabs as the two races (although I consider Arabs white) that their parents wouldn't be happy with them marrying. My guess is that Arabs are just undesired because of the bad stereotypes they carry. Blacks too, although I must say I think it's deeper than stereotypes. I don't know what it is about black people that makes most people, often subconsciously, set them aside as another species. But it seems that even people who've never been around black people and don't even have much knowledge about the bad stereotypes still have some natural dislike for them. Is it the dark skin that makes them look totally different from other races which makes other races keep their distance? Is it the jungle roots of Africa that seem to make up some anthropological theories to justify this racism? What sets black people apart from any other race and their negative traits? Really, I want to know.
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Post by betahat on Oct 20, 2009 0:08:47 GMT -5
^A huge part of the population is segregating itself from the rest of the assimilated/native population. Yup, nothing like that in Paris  I'm not saying America is great for race relations, just that France in recent times is hardly a model either. Perhaps because France today, especially in the big cities, is not a monocultural society anymore. In any case, I have spent a fair bit of time in one monocultural society - Argentina - where there is a tremendous amount of racism. I also grew up in a city that is about 94% white (I don't know if that qualifies as monocultural to you). I've also spent a lot of time in places like Singapore, Toronto, and Cuba that have done a good job with race relations in recent times. I wouldn't say that race relations in Halifax are any better than in Toronto, which is about 50% visible minority (i.e. non-white). I don't think you can generalize - it's not just multiculturalism that causes conflict, but large socioeconomic disparities reinforced by discriminatory policies and laws. I'm surprised that your experience in North America was one where people didn't interact with you because of your race. I've never experienced anything like that living my whole life in North America, and I'm sure others here would concur. Racism directed at Eurasians tends to be more subtle (and sometimes benign, as in the EA beauty myth, or in the common - you must get trait X from your Asian/European side because Europeans/Asians don't have X) and curiosity seems to be the most common reaction in my experience. ^"What sets black people apart from any other race and their negative traits? Really, I want to know. " I don't know, but maybe it's because they look more different? People like to think in binary opposites, and black is the opposite of white. It does seem to be common across many cultures to prefer light to dark skin (see Palaver's thread on this) but I don't know if that predates European world dominance. |
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Shock
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Post by Shock on Nov 27, 2009 6:18:17 GMT -5
lol As expected, it seems most people in this thread named blacks and Arabs as the two races (although I consider Arabs white) that their parents wouldn't be happy with them marrying. My guess is that Arabs are just undesired because of the bad stereotypes they carry. Blacks too, although I must say I think it's deeper than stereotypes. I don't know what it is about black people that makes most people, often subconsciously, set them aside as another species. But it seems that even people who've never been around black people and don't even have much knowledge about the bad stereotypes still have some natural dislike for them. Is it the dark skin that makes them look totally different from other races which makes other races keep their distance? Is it the jungle roots of Africa that seem to make up some anthropological theories to justify this racism? What sets black people apart from any other race and their negative traits? Really, I want to know. "Arab" is a cultural term, not a racial one. There are arabs of every race. Personally I think that most people dislike blacks coz they remind them their roots, given that the first humans were blacks. |
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Post by Ganbare! on Nov 27, 2009 16:42:34 GMT -5
^A huge part of the population is segregating itself from the rest of the assimilated/native population. Yup, nothing like that in Paris I'm not saying America is great for race relations, just that France in recent times is hardly a model either. Perhaps because France today, especially in the big cities, is not a monocultural society anymore. In any case, I have spent a fair bit of time in one monocultural society - Argentina - where there is a tremendous amount of racism. I also grew up in a city that is about 94% white (I don't know if that qualifies as monocultural to you). I've also spent a lot of time in places like Singapore, Toronto, and Cuba that have done a good job with race relations in recent times. I wouldn't say that race relations in Halifax are any better than in Toronto, which is about 50% visible minority (i.e. non-white). I don't think you can generalize - it's not just multiculturalism that causes conflict, but large socioeconomic disparities reinforced by discriminatory policies and laws. I'm surprised that your experience in North America was one where people didn't interact with you because of your race. I've never experienced anything like that living my whole life in North America, and I'm sure others here would concur. Racism directed at Eurasians tends to be more subtle (and sometimes benign, as in the EA beauty myth, or in the common - you must get trait X from your Asian/European side because Europeans/Asians don't have X) and curiosity seems to be the most common reaction in my experience. ^"What sets black people apart from any other race and their negative traits? Really, I want to know. " I don't know, but maybe it's because they look more different? People like to think in binary opposites, and black is the opposite of white. It does seem to be common across many cultures to prefer light to dark skin (see Palaver's thread on this) but I don't know if that predates European world dominance. I'm not bashing NA altogether nor saying France in particular is the ultimate model of society, I'm just expressing my personal concerns and observations on two different regions. Late answer but i believe it's important to mention that officially continental Europe policy is monoculture even if large cities are diverse, minority cultures are not encouraged to bloom and are even if it's wrong expected to assimilate in the local one. I completely disagree, Canada has a large ethnic minority middle-class which doesn't exist at all in France nor in Germany either, 80% of visible minorities belong to the working class. It doesn't mean Paris was burning like Ladyhawke loves to figuratively sing about because of the 2005 riots by an impoverished suburban youth that failures are based on race relations. The problem in Europe is about social disparities, North America's is because of its unbearable diversity not the contrary (remember the failure of Reasonable accommodation debate in Canada?!) |
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Post by milkman's baby on Nov 27, 2009 17:36:50 GMT -5
lol As expected, it seems most people in this thread named blacks and Arabs as the two races (although I consider Arabs white) that their parents wouldn't be happy with them marrying. My guess is that Arabs are just undesired because of the bad stereotypes they carry. Blacks too, although I must say I think it's deeper than stereotypes. I don't know what it is about black people that makes most people, often subconsciously, set them aside as another species. But it seems that even people who've never been around black people and don't even have much knowledge about the bad stereotypes still have some natural dislike for them. Is it the dark skin that makes them look totally different from other races which makes other races keep their distance? Is it the jungle roots of Africa that seem to make up some anthropological theories to justify this racism? What sets black people apart from any other race and their negative traits? Really, I want to know. "Arab" is a cultural term, not a racial one. There are arabs of every race. Personally I think that most people dislike blacks coz they remind them their roots, given that the first humans were blacks. I'm not an expert of Semitic anthropology, but as far as I'm concerned most people use "Arab" in the context of race. Arab, as used by most Americans at least, means someone whose ancestors descended from the Middle Eastern region or Northern Africa. As long as they're not a Jew. |
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Post by catgirl on Dec 6, 2009 8:34:26 GMT -5
Some French were always talking s*** about the arabs....Like ONLY about them! Used to think it was a bit weird. I lived in the south. But one time I was in the city there were some arab looking men staring and following me  |
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Post by paul101 on Dec 8, 2009 10:28:10 GMT -5
^ Oooh, what part? My mother is from Cannes.  Yeah, I noticed a few Arab men staring at me and my sister when we were there. Kinda creepy. o.o |
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Post by admin on Dec 8, 2009 15:09:37 GMT -5
^ Oooh, what part? My mother is from Cannes. Yeah, I noticed a few Arab men staring at me and my sister when we were there. Kinda creepy. o.o Yeah, watch out for those Arabs - they want to eat your liver. Or sell you some upholstery. Depends if it was the weekend or not... |
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Post by milkman's baby on Dec 8, 2009 17:00:27 GMT -5
Oh tell me about it. This Arab-looking guy was staring at me too and that was so creepy. And another Arab guy sneezed in front of me and that scared me! And I saw these other two Arab guys eat broccoli for lunch. Scary man. Arabs are so scary. Scary Arabs, man. Scary Arabs. I call them "Scarabs."  |
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Post by admin on Dec 8, 2009 18:27:33 GMT -5
OK, well, seriously, there is a cultural component to it. Many Arab women are not allowed to be in public without a family chaperone. This can include married women, believe it or not! I am not too sure of that last one, but I think so. Anyway, that creates the notion that unchaperoned women (meaning...non-Arabs) are non-chaste and that gets their juices flowing.
Two stories.
One - My sister was shopping one day when an older man (I think he was Iranian, not Arab - maybe it's a Muslim thing? Who knows!) starting staring at her and following her around the store. Finally he stepped up to her and growled "What are you doing out of the house?" She let him have it and when he realized he mistook her for someone else, he ran out of the store. Scary? Yeah, in the sense that there are women locked up in homes all around America and you'd never know it.
Two - I had a co-worker (Arab) with a 1/2 Arab girlfriend. She was smart and people liked her. His older brother had an arranged marriage and the girl didn't want to marry him (he weighed north of 300 pounds) so, to get out of it, she told his family that she used to have a boyfriend and they had sex and she wasn't a virgin. That was that! His parents broke off the engagement and she was free. Fearing that more embarrassment might be in store for them, they had their other two sons have their girlfriends come over and swear they were virgins. One of them (the 1/2 Arab girl) says "I was until I met your son, and we've been having sex, but it's only been with him." Well, they were NOT having it and demanded he dump her, which he did. They then picked a dumb ugly (virgin) cow for him to marry and he complied and was married within months.
So as far as scary goes, well, people are individuals and aren't necessarily scary until you get to know them. So that's the advice then, for Arabs, Chinese, Jews, Baptists, Dixiecrats, Parrotheads, or whatever -- get to know the person before depending on them. Save yourself some surprises, heartaches, or worse. Don't be ignorant and prejudiced - there are enough of those people in the world already.
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Post by milkman's baby on Dec 8, 2009 18:56:53 GMT -5
Oh, you guys really weren't talking about scarab beetles? I am gravely mislead.
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Post by admin on Dec 8, 2009 19:18:14 GMT -5
Happens to me all the time.
Now where am I going to find a video that covers both Arab motifs and "misled" as a theme...AND with a Rob-endorsed 80s R&B vibe?
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Post by Emily on Dec 11, 2009 22:35:00 GMT -5
Not to steer up the Arab debate, but I've found my experience with Arab men in France and in Canada as completely different. Perhaps it's that the French treat Arabs as second-class scum, which makes some of them in turn behave in the unacceptable manner that is expected in them. To be honest, it seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Arabs are evil, let's ostracise them and bam, you get the racial tension you have over there.
I've seen three Arab men menacingly calling out names to my friend because she didn't respond favorably to their advances. To the point that we were both scared they'd pounce on her. One of my friends had to intervene when a man was harassing a woman at night - and she brushed it off, saying she was used to it. Another one asked our (guy) friend if he could take home for the night my friend and how much he was selling me for.
All appalling situations I have never encountered here. Quite the contrary, I remember during the first week I came back from France, an Arab guy approached me in a pleasant manner, engaged me in conversation and it generally was a positive encounter.
Two completely different experiences, yet it's supposed to be the same people. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that Arab men in France are evil. Just that my anecdotal experience, especially contrasted with the flawless behavior I am accustomed to here, makes me understand why the French are quick to generalise and hate them as much, unfortunately.
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Post by milkman's baby on Dec 11, 2009 23:56:59 GMT -5
Not to steer up the Arab debate, but I've found my experience with Arab men in France and in Canada as completely different. Perhaps it's that the French treat Arabs as second-class scum, which makes some of them in turn behave in the unacceptable manner that is expected in them. To be honest, it seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's pretty much how racism starts anywhere, with any race(s). It's a "viscious cycle," as I heard someone once put it. Although some people, like me, are good at containing their racist thoughts and assumptions and not incorporating into their actions. I've had similar experiences with Arab men here at college, but other than that it's really just been black men that do the same things you guys describe. I still haven't gotten the prejudice out of me and I am conditioned to tense up and walk really fast each time I see a black guy walk toward me on the street, I'm sad to admit. I have a gay black male friend who's pretty big, tall, and intimidating and he tells me some amusing stories about the frightened looks he gets from females on the street and when first meeting them. He sees a lot of "relief" once they realize he's gay and therefore "safe." |
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I'm not saying America is great for race relations, just that France in recent times is hardly a model either. Perhaps because France today, especially in the big cities, is not a monocultural society anymore. 
