Anyone here ever been racially profiled?

[betahat]

Just curious, given the whole Henry Louis (Skip) Gates controversy (an African American professor at Harvard who was arrested for "disorderly conduct" after confronting a police officer while breaking into his own home because the lock was broken). For those who haven't been following the MSM bloviation here's a refresher
www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/22/obama-on-skip-gates-arres_n_243250.html

My definition of racial profiling here isn't just racial stereotyping in general (a little too vague, we've all experienced it in one way or another, positively or negatively), or racial discrimination, but particularly use of race by authority figures to make a determination of potential criminality or guilt.

Anyway, it is in no way clear that this particular incident was racial profiling per se, rather than just an arrogant old black professor versus a power-tripping cop. It's kind of hard to tell conclusively whether you were ever singled out by authority because of race or for some other reason, even though racial profiling is a statistical reality.

But since Asians usually are considered a "good" minority, and we Eurasians are particularly good, it would be interesting to hear if anyone has ever felt like they were singled out by an immigration officer, policeman, security guard, etc. because of their appearance.

[Groink]

I had been following that story with a bit of interest. I'm waiting to hear the 911 and the radio transcript from that whole incident.

Can't recall ever being racially profiled though. A cop thought that my friend was asian when he wrote her up for speeding when I was in the car. She normally gets hispanic or some such (she's really native american and white/spanish). I laughed and told her she got "asian'd by association".

[milkman's baby]

Groink, are you trying to say your friend was racially profiled just because she got a speeding ticket?

No, I have never been racially profiled quite to the extent of dealing with law enforcement. There is a part of town with many shops and stores, and I've repeatedly found myself being followed and watched intensely by sales clerks and managers while shopping. Whether it is racial or not, I will never know. It could just be that a young woman who looked similar to me previously caused trouble there. But if it is racial, I can bet you $50 it's because they think I'm Hispanic. Asians just don't carry that kinda stigma around here. So I highly doubt I need to worry about being profiled by the cops as 1) an Asian (if that's what they think I am), and 2) a female. If another Pearl Harbor happens, then I'll worry.

[Deleted]

I've had a few instances where I've been reported to be "suspicious" and then subsequently had to deal with law enforcement. But, of course it may have had nothing to do with race.

The first time that it happened was when I was walking through my college campus because i was supposed to pick up a book at the library. It was past day class hours but I remember night classes were still going on at the time and quite a few people were around. I was stopped by a bicycle cop and a few seconds later a police car pulled up and even flashed their lights for a few seconds
and everyone around of course, stopped and stared. They asked me if I was a student, which I didn't mind and I responded yes. Oddly enough, they didn't ask me for any id. Then they went on to ask me if I "had anything to drink" or if I was "high" (I've never done either)and even asked me what sort of grades I get and also went into inquiring about my living situation ....which upset me quite a bit and led me to question if it was, in fact racial profiling.I think they asked me these questions because I look Aboriginal or Hispanic. Native Americans unfortunately have a stereotype for having alcohol and drug problems where I live and I'm pretty sure that's why they stopped me. After they had spoken to me for a bit they said that they were sorry that they had bothered me and told me that they had to stop me because a woman had reported a "suspicious character" that fit my description....I think that woman may have thought it " suspicious" to see a Native American or non-white Latina looking girl on a college campus

of course, I may have been acting like a total weirdo and just not been aware of it.....



I think with EAs , because we can look like we come from a variety of ethnic backgrounds can get stereotyped or treated negatively quite a bit.

reminds me of this:

" For individual people of color who function in a European-majority society, what they actually identify as has little bearing on how the 'mainstream' treats them. It is what they look like that matters. For example, In the U.S., a European Jewish boy questioned by cops who think he is Hispanic cannot escape by responding, "Actually I am Jewish. I do not belong to an ethnic group stereotyped as criminal!" Even though he officially qualifies as 'white', he cannot claim the racial profiling of minorities does not affect him. "


taken from article entitled mixed race individuals and mistaken identities
www.colorq.org/Meltingpot/article.aspx?d=op&x=together

[Groink]

Jul 27, 2009 0:23:19 GMT -5 milkman's baby said:

Groink, are you trying to say your friend was racially profiled just because she got a speeding ticket?

Nope. Not at all. Just a tangential story.

[Ganbare!]

Defining if racial profiling happened or not is quite tricky since usually alot of criteria are taken into account. I know from a cop that body language is what they monitor first to differentiate someone who is suspect from someone who is not, throw in the way one dress, the things you are carrying with you (eg: backpack, authority figures come to think that you're homeless)...

[palaver]

Not my story, but I knew a Filipino guy who was pulled over and searched 4 times while driving through Louisiana (USA). It was the first time it ever happened to him. His wife--who is white--drove half of the way and never got pulled over. He said it probably because he looked Hispanic and presumed that he might be smuggling drugs. It was one of his many stories cataloging his experience in the racist South.

I was never pulled over "just because" and I never had any trouble getting into a Waffle House. Though, the West Coast has historically been more anti-Asian so the racism ingrained there might be less forgiving towards Asians compared to the South.

During the era of racial segregation in U.S., Japanese American soldiers were stationed in Louisiana. They weren't sure how react to the "whites only" sign. So they ended sitting in the "coloured" section of the bus and drank out of the "coloured" fountain until blacks started telling to use the "whites only" section. Then the governor of Louisiana issued an order giving them permission to use the "whites only". What this says is that though Asians might feel like a minority in U.S., racially they're not.

Reminds of story about Malcolm X. A group of bright-eyed Eastern European children are jumping up and down on seats at the airport, babbling in their native tongue and about to take their first steps on American soil. Despite whatever oppressed minority they come from, by virtue of their skin they'll have more privileges as Americans than he ever had. Malcolm turns to Haley and says, "Pretty little children. Soon they're going to learn their first English word: nigger."

[Ganbare!]

It's quite scary to remember that some board members here on EAN were born at a time where anti miscegenation laws were still relevant in the States. Race relations are still really tensed to this day (neo nazis rednecks demonstrations in Texas latest news headlines) compared to other developed countries.

I'm going out of bounds but I've always found amusing how Americans are boasting their multiculturality so much though it clearly appears this policy has failed much (from idealistic melting pot concept to the more realpolitik one, the salad bowl and god knows what's next), a lot of individuals still refuse to integrate linguistically and even culturally to the US (mexicans and chinese for instance). Go to Chinatown in SF and try to ask for directions in English, you'll be surprised to see how many people will reply to you in chinese dialects.

On one hand the lack of integration is putting the American identity to peril as much as the segregation, you can live, learn, eat and even interact Black only in the some hoods in New York city, on the other hand there is so little dialogue between race, each ethnic group competing against one another to get more power and resources from the white dominated society.

Alot of people don't want to integrate the white American society nor they want to interact with other groups at all.

Being a minority living in a monocultural western country, I strongly associate my identity-citizenship with the Nation-state I live in and I know most do. Canada is somehow similar in the respect of official multiculturality policy and only 25% of immigrants in Canada feel that they're Canadian first and foremost, their other identity coming second, those who hold the citizenship included !

[Deleted]

Jul 28, 2009 9:26:55 GMT -5 Ganbare! said:

Defining if racial profiling happened or not is quite tricky since usually alot of criteria are taken into account. I know from a cop that body language is what they monitor first to differentiate someone who is suspect from someone who is not, throw in the way one dress, the things you are carrying with you (eg: backpack, authority figures come to think that you're homeless)...

Yeah, I was thinking that might be the reason for what happened to me...I try to be very mindful about how I dress and try to wear things that make me look more "put together" or "business-like" such as pantsuits (even though I feel that I am too young to be wearing them at my age)in an effort to avoid "looking homeless".

I think I just have a horrible eye for clothes or something. I have many friends and see many other students on campus who wear sweatpants and carry backpacks and still manage to look put together and not get bothered by cops.

[jefe]

I got pulled over by the police and was hassled perhaps partially attributable to racial profiling.

I was showing this female friend (who was an overseas Mainland Chinese student studying in New York) where I lived as a small child in the Anacostia section of SE Washington, DC. I entered a street with blocked cop cars, so I backed up and decided to take an alternate street. However, the cops chased me, ordered me to stop, get out of the car, spread my arms eagle style on the side of the car while the cops frisked my body. Then they ordered me to remain in that position for 15-20 mins. while they called in my license. They asked me what I was doing in that neighborhoodand I said that I was showing my friend where I used to live as a child. And the surly officer said that I was "LYING THROUGH (MY) TEETH" and there was NO WAY that I could have ever lived in that neighborhood (about 98-99% black). The ONLY reason I could be there was to buy drugs. He also repeatedly asked me if the girl in the car was my sister. FINALLY, he let me go, but told me that their were daily shootings in that neighborhood and weekly murders, so I should not be going into that neighborhood.

IMMIGRATION officers -- what a pain
- Entering back from Montreal into the USA with 2 HK-born Chinese Americans, the 3 of us were stopped at a roadblock about 50 miles into NY state. They were doing immigration checks for illegal aliens.
- using my prior passport, I was repeatedly accused of carrying a fake passport, mainly entering the USA, but also twice entering the Philippines. Not only did they bend my passport all up, I have also been pulled to the side to be interrogated. Once at Niagara Falls, the officer asked me "Which hospital were you born in?" "What is the address of the hospital that you were born in?", etc. etc. etc. After 20-25 mins. of interrogation, she finally let me go, but explained that she needed to be careful as many people try to smuggle themselves into the USA.
Twice in the Phils. my friends had to wait an extra half hour for me as I was brought to a separate room by a senior immigration officer.
- Entering the USA, immigration officers have asked me WHY I am entering the USA, and if I have any family in the USA. GEE, I am a native born USA citizen, do I need to explain why I am returning to my own country?
- Entering Kunming China using my current passport, After waiting in line for 40 mins. to get to the counter, I was directed to wait in a separate line from everyone else. All the HK Chinese, Mainland Chinese, non-Chinese foreigners all passed through the line without getting stopped. Then I looked at my line -- ALL seemed to be Chinese-Americans carrying USA passports, and they were being checked by a separate immigration official. Needless to say, I was the LAST person to exit immigration about 20-30 mins. after everyone else.
- Just last week returning from Shanghai to HK, Everyone passed through customs (Asians, Caucasians, Blacks, etc.) but the customs officer stopped me asking in English where I had just came from. I responded back in Cantonese "Shanghai" and he looked a bit shocked and puzzled. He asked in Cantonese where I was from, and I told him that I was HK resident and then he let me pass through. I really wonder what I had been profiled as.

[jefe]

Jul 28, 2009 19:06:31 GMT -5 Ganbare! said:

It's quite scary to remember that some board members here on EAN were born at a time where anti miscegenation laws were still relevant in the States. Race relations are still really tensed to this day (neo nazis rednecks demonstrations in Texas latest news headlines) compared to other developed countries.

Yes, I am one of them.
My parents got married in Washington, DC, when it was illegal for them to do so in the surrounding states of Maryland and Virginia. Maryland was slightly more liberal than Virginia (where the Loving vs. Virginia case prompted the Supreme Court overturn), and when I was a few years old, they moved into Maryland where it was technically illegal. Indeed, they moved into MD because their neighborhood in DC had been *blockbusted*, the technique they used to use to convert white neighborhoods into black. So choosing between an all black neighborhood or to live in a state illegally, they chose the latter. Nevertheless, they could not rent an apartment as a couple, so my mother had to sign the lease and the rest of the family moved in later.

As a child we could never travel around as a family either. My mother was from Alabama and the whole area between DC and Alabama was anti-miscegenation territory -- Imagine our family trying to rent a hotel room anywhere! My parents visited Alabama TOGETHER only in 1968 after the anti-miscegenation laws were invalidated, but Alabama in fact did not repeal their law until Nov. 2000.

After segregation laws were repealed, then came DESEGREGATION in the 1970s - another tense and violent period in recent US history. I happened to attend school in the largest school system in the country subject to mandatory court ordered desegregation. And who of us heard the tapes from Nixon -- (to paraphrase) Abortion is morally wrong, except in the case of mixed race babies . . . .. . .

Indeed, had abortion been legal when I was born I surely would have been one of them. I still imagine the only choices my mother had
1. Have a mixed race baby out of wedlock as a single white woman in the US south.
2. Have an abortion (then illegal and only performed as a dangerous backstreet surgical operation).
3. Get married and potentially break the anti-miscegenation laws.

What a dilemma! Look, at that time, only #1 was fully legal. #3 was legal in Washington, DC, and that was where they did it.

I am sure that if #1 had been chosen, I would not have survived. I would have either been killed or kill myself.

[jefe]

I have another story of turning the tables on racial profiling.

I was assaulted (this is a side story to the event below) in my neighborhood in Maryland, with a boxing punch to my mouth, my lips got all busted, my front tooth was cracked loose and my whole top set of teeth was cracked under my gums, which had gotten split horizontally. After getting my lip sewed in the hospital emergency room, I went to see the dental surgeon the next day.

The surgeon put me under general anasthesia, and then wired my top and bottom gums together. In order for them to close for lunch, they forced me to wake up and they moved me to the waiting room. However, I was still extremely groggy, could not stand up or sit up straight, leaning sideways over on the sofa and saliva ran uncontrollably from my mouth. They did call my mother to come pick me up.

I don't remember much from from the wait except for when a Black woman came in with her young girl sat across from me. The girl, about 4-5 yrs. old, incessantly pointed at me and repeated said, "Mom, mom, look at the Karate man, look at the Karate man."

Finally my mother arrived and she was PISSED. She noted that I was left unattended in the waiting room still under the effect of the anathesia, but they had locked the office and no one could be found.

She called the doctor's office that afternoon and blew her head off. The doctor insisted that they were simply inside the office, and they were watching me the whole time and even saw my mother come in to pick me up.
My Mother: "You could not possibly have seen me pick my son up."
Doctor: "Oh yes I did, I could see the waiting room from inside."
My mother: "Oh, no you didn't."
Doctor: "Yes, I did."
My mother: "Oh yeah, then describe me -- what did I look like"
Doctor: "I didn't really get a clear look"
My mother: "Well, you must have seen something -- was I tall, short, fat, thin, what color was I wearing, . . . ."
Doctor: "I didn't get that clear a look, but I could tell you were Oriental."

(S*H*I*T HIT THE FAN)

My mother: "DAMMIT, there is no way in hell you saw me. I am NOT Oriental, I am Caucasian, blue eyes, wavy hair, . . . ."
Doctor: Well, if you are displeased with the service, you can find another surgeon for the follow-up treatment.
My mother: NO, God dammit. YOu will finish this service, and you will watch my son every second until I arrive to pick him up or I will sue you and have your take your license away.

These stories sound funny afterwards, but at the time, if you were a victim of it, . . .

[Ganbare!]

Funny how several members have experienced the same crap. I got pulled over by cops in a bad neighborhood too a couple of weeks ago.

COme to think of it three years ago, when I entered back Canada at Trudeau int'l airport in Montreal, I was taken into questioning, the female immigration officer asked me ''why would I come back to Canada after 5 years of absence?'', ''what do I plan doing here?', 'where will I stay?' all that knowing I'm a canadian citizen.

If you wonder, my mother who was accompanying me got the same treatment, even though she's blond and is light-eyed, she's got an olive complexion and could totally pass for NOT Caucasian. Probably the funniest question ever was ''why would you just travel with a bag?'' , I replied "err I'm moving back permanently to study in a tiny cell-like rez room, so it's not like I've got room to store my collection of teddy bears or something''

I know from experience that when you travel from certain location to another, immigration officers can be namely from Quebec to the US, ANYWHERE to Japan (lol) etc.

God how'd you cope with all that ?! I guess you've been profiled as Latino because even knowing you are EA, excepted for the eyes you could really pass for Hispanic.

[Subuatai]

jefe

If I ever lived in a such a country with segregation laws I would have become a terrorist. I'm surprised your parents dealt with such inhumanity without going along the lines of insanity and immense anger like myself at the moment, yet my circumstances are so much less severe compared to theirs.

Though it seems they had lost it at times as well too, so I guess I'm not too nuts yet heh, still... I couldn't even stand my mother-in-law when she asked my wife to abort our daughter in the past. I fail to see anyone who dehumanises a human child based on heritage as a human being. Much respect to your parents.

Also;

Indeed, had abortion been legal when I was born I surely would have been one of them.

I'm sorry but I don't think #1 was ever an option for your parents from what I've read. But that's just my opinion which I believe strongly.

It was never an option with me or my wife and we are glad with our daughter here now and proud that we had never entertained such an inhuman idea. Anyone who had dared suggest it had it coming, only one who didn't get it from me was my mother-in-law out of respect though it took a hell of a lot of restraint on my part back then.

[jefe]

Jul 29, 2009 7:02:51 GMT -5 Ganbare! said:

Funny how several members have experienced the same crap. I got pulled over by cops in a bad neighborhood too a couple of weeks ago.

You heard of being pulled over for "Driving while Black"? This normally occurs in a non-black neighborhood. I guess there is also a risk for being pulled over for "Driving while non-Black" in a Black neighborhood.

God how'd you cope with all that ?! I guess you've been profiled as Latino because even knowing you are EA, excepted for the eyes you could really pass for Hispanic.

I think I have been profiled as Asian, Caucasian, Latino, Middle-Eastern -- I have no idea what to expect.