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EuropEA
Aug 22, 2009 21:51:24 GMT -5
Post by Ganbare! on Aug 22, 2009 21:51:24 GMT -5
I'm aware there is already such a topic but since it dates back to 2004, I thought I'd be interesting to create a new one so we can all share the diversity we experience locally in our current country of residence/home.
I also strongly encourage members living in other locations to create similar threads.
Living most of my life in Europe, I haven't really been exposed to my asian side, which I regret deeply today, I blame the small Asian population here and assimilation policies in place throughout the continent. Most of us are quite spread out geographically and sometimes we can't even communicate at a decent level in the same language, English not being widely spoken as mother tongue.
So let's voice our spe-sho identity!
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EuropEA
Sept 5, 2009 11:40:28 GMT -5
Post by Ganbare! on Sept 5, 2009 11:40:28 GMT -5
the Fortress Europe !!
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Shock
Full Member
Posts: 261
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EuropEA
Sept 13, 2009 13:14:55 GMT -5
Post by Shock on Sept 13, 2009 13:14:55 GMT -5
Europe is old and boring. I hope to go to Hawaii or Australia when I grow up.
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EuropEA
Sept 17, 2009 23:07:40 GMT -5
Post by milkman's baby on Sept 17, 2009 23:07:40 GMT -5
So what's this thread supposed to be about?
I lived in Stuttgart, Germany as a child. I went to an American DoD school, but we had some German teachers. Even as young as kindergarten, those German teachers were not hesitant to voice their disgust with the Turkish people in Germany.
I haven't been back since, but I wonder what it would have been like if I stayed. Europe is too broad a category. Tell us what country you're in and how you think EAs/Asians are treated there. I'm curious.
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EuropEA
Sept 18, 2009 7:56:09 GMT -5
Post by Subuatai on Sept 18, 2009 7:56:09 GMT -5
^ Why does much of the western world hate Turkish so much? I just don't understand. I understand the Greek motives for their racism due to the Cyprus war, but how about others? =/
Is it Islam again? Sorry I'm still rather clueless what to make out of all of it.
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EuropEA
Sept 18, 2009 9:07:19 GMT -5
Post by Ganbare! on Sept 18, 2009 9:07:19 GMT -5
Because Turkey is a large-populated, islam-faithed, developing country that has flex its military muscle against its immediate neighbors in the past too often. Outside of that, their food's good, people are very nice etc.
Europe sure is a broad category but we can talk about local shopping, trends and other purely local matters.
I'm sick of the American monopolization of the web, we don't shop at wal-mart and eat at chili's. I see so many non-Americans discussing American matters or daily life and censor themselves in not talking about local initiatives in their country because most websites and discussions are ran/created by Americans. So it is unnatural for them to make a move towards that.
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EuropEA
Sept 18, 2009 10:04:12 GMT -5
Post by milkman's baby on Sept 18, 2009 10:04:12 GMT -5
Because Turkey is a large-populated, islam-faithed, developing country that has flex its military muscle against its immediate neighbors in the past too often. Outside of that, their food's good, people are very nice etc. Europe sure is a broad category but we can talk about local shopping, trends and other purely local matters. I'm sick of the American monopolization of the web, we don't shop at wal-mart and eat at chili's. I see so many non-American discussing American matters or daily life and censor themselves in not talking about local initiatives in their country because most websites and discussions are ran/created by Americans. So it is unnatural for them to make a move towards that. You're preaching to the choir, dear. I was asking about Europe because I wanted to get to know more about life as an EA in Europe. And you haven't answered yet. Did you create this thread so we can discuss all things Euro or just so you could complain about the internet being too American? As for the anti-Turkish sentiment, I believe it's simply because Turks tend to be poor in Europe. And we all know what kind of treatment the poor get. I remember at the DoD school, a lot of the janitorial and cleaning staff were Turkish. Since I was so young at the time, I didn't know much about the situation. But my dad said almost every white German he met had something nasty to say about Turks. If I'm correct, the large scale immigration of Turks began in the 1950s when German companies contracted with Turkish workers or something. Everyone likes to bag on the US for being a giant racist dump, but I'm sick of the media portraying all Europeans as these ultra liberal tolerant individuals. I haven't been back to West Europe in a while, but I've read enough to know that is not true. Just ask an Arab or African out there. Don't even get me started on East Europe.
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EuropEA
Sept 18, 2009 13:45:46 GMT -5
Post by palaver on Sept 18, 2009 13:45:46 GMT -5
I see so many non-American discussing American matters or daily life and censor themselves in not talking about local initiatives in their country because most websites and discussions are ran/created by Americans. So it is unnatural for them to make a move towards that. True, only Americans are self centered enough to talk about their lives as if it's the only thing going on in the world. But if it's an English language site, what countries do you expect them to talk about/report from? There's this German guy who is on a mailing list I subscribe to... knows more about American culture and politics than any American I know. But you know Germans... they fly to other countries, spend 5 days locked in a hotel room, then write about that country as if they're experts. It's all theoretical because they use cowboy iconography to explain the American psyche or quote the Daily Show. As for Turks, every countries got them. Not Turks per se , but Lebanese, Mexicans, Poles, Gypsies, Palestinians, North Africans, Afghans, Kurds, boat people, etc. I feel sorry for the Gypsies though. An anti-Gypsy party was recently elected to the EU. Europe should be glad the Ottomans didn't take Vienna or they'd be praying to a different god. And if it wasn't for U.S. diplomatic intervention after WWI, Turkey would've been parceled out and f**ked up like the rest of the Middle East that fell into European hands. I had African American who use to live in Denmark. On a personal level they are more racist than Americans, but they treat foreigners better than America treats its own citizens. Because of this, he'd rather go back. Kinda says a lot about what people expect from social justice. Don't send flowers when I can't afford the vase.
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EuropEA
Sept 18, 2009 18:20:29 GMT -5
Post by milkman's baby on Sept 18, 2009 18:20:29 GMT -5
I had African American who use to live in Denmark. On a personal level they are more racist than Americans, but they treat foreigners better than America treats its own citizens. Because of this, he'd rather go back. Kinda says a lot about what people expect from social justice. Don't send flowers when I can't afford the vase.I do remember reading a report in TIME magazine a couple years back that the small percentage of American babies that get adopted abroad are usually African-Americans adopted by Scandinavian parents. Apparently, these African-American mothers are under the perception that their children will be treated better, race-wise, out there. Anyway, it may sound ironic for me to say, but the fact that western Europe has become so diverse and inhabited by other cultures makes it kind of boring to me. So much of Germany isn't German in the original sense anymore. I guess that's why I gravitated toward Russian studies and Eastern European interests. Very repulsive people out there, but the comparative homogeneity (which oddly resulted after years of heterogeneity) makes for an interesting and still strong culture. Any EAN users here live in East Europe or Russia?
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EuropEA
Sept 19, 2009 7:49:40 GMT -5
Post by Subuatai on Sept 19, 2009 7:49:40 GMT -5
milkman's baby/Palaver So is it mostly an anti-immigration thing? I guess that's common in Europe nowadays. Why don't some Euros come over here to Australia then? Balance things up a bit and bring in their food! Though culturally Anglo-Aussies and Europeans can have some frictions from time to time from what I've heard from my wife's friends. @palaver Haha! heh there's plenty around that still do just that It would seem however that the Ottomans at their prime still had a system of meritocracy and religious tolerance at a high degree. Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbians, Hungarians didn't pray to Allah. Actually post-WWI Turkey was founded through a war for independence with Turkish nationalists led by Mustafa Ataturk who revolted against the imposed Treaty of Sevres after WWI and won decisively against the occupation of U.K., Greece, France, Italy and Armenia in Anatolia. They even got to keep Istanbul in the end too - I heard some Greeks still bitter about it even today (it used to be Constantinople prior to the 15th century) milkman's babyHeh, I've actually heard that racism in the United States differs (sometimes from one extreme to another) from state to state, city to city, even street to street. As for Europeans, I've heard about the anti-immigration attitudes of Europeans, which from my wife's friends seems to be mainly due to space. In the case of Russia, such attitudes are in the minority and the reasons are quite different - to restore lost national pride after the fall of the U.S.S.R. Also I've met quite a lot of Lebanese, Arabs, Egyptians, Nigerians, Sudanese and Iranians before. Those who have travelled actually have a very good impression of Europe. However truth be known, they really only ever talked about the women So maybe the women there are very nice and happy while only the men are p*ssed about everything ;D As for my own experience, European-Australians tend to be rather cultured and nice people, but for real Europeans all I have really got to know are my wife's friends (mostly women too). They all seem to be very nice... well most of them, some were rather prudish/stuckup. The only malefriends of hers were older folk but there was one fella who I couldn't communicate with - and yes he's French. Nonetheless I haven't encountered racism or even racialism from them (but maybe my wife has only good friends), or it could be that they are just plain simple tourists.
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EuropEA
Sept 19, 2009 9:46:16 GMT -5
Post by Ganbare! on Sept 19, 2009 9:46:16 GMT -5
Because Turkey is a large-populated, islam-faithed, developing country that has flex its military muscle against its immediate neighbors in the past too often. Outside of that, their food's good, people are very nice etc. Europe sure is a broad category but we can talk about local shopping, trends and other purely local matters. I'm sick of the American monopolization of the web, we don't shop at wal-mart and eat at chili's. I see so many non-American discussing American matters or daily life and censor themselves in not talking about local initiatives in their country because most websites and discussions are ran/created by Americans. So it is unnatural for them to make a move towards that. You're preaching to the choir, dear. I was asking about Europe because I wanted to get to know more about life as an EA in Europe. And you haven't answered yet. Did you create this thread so we can discuss all things Euro or just so you could complain about the internet being too American? As for the anti-Turkish sentiment, I believe it's simply because Turks tend to be poor in Europe. And we all know what kind of treatment the poor get. I remember at the DoD school, a lot of the janitorial and cleaning staff were Turkish. Since I was so young at the time, I didn't know much about the situation. But my dad said almost every white German he met had something nasty to say about Turks. If I'm correct, the large scale immigration of Turks began in the 1950s when German companies contracted with Turkish workers or something. Everyone likes to bag on the US for being a giant racist dump, but I'm sick of the media portraying all Europeans as these ultra liberal tolerant individuals. I haven't been back to West Europe in a while, but I've read enough to know that is not true. Just ask an Arab or African out there. Don't even get me started on East Europe. My intention with this thread was to discuss Euro-only from EA experience here to exclusively European topics. I'm not against the monopoly of English, it's fundamental that everyone can communicate to some extent in one common language. English has become the lingua franca with globalization. Americans feel so entitled to defend their intellectual supremacy. I'm sorry to hear you live in a rural area in the United States but we non-Americans are under siege by the Americanization of minds led by Internet. It's appalling to see, how biased the Internet is towards American culture and values. Don't worry if you actually had lived long enough in Germany you would know that the average European is more racist on an individual basis than the average American but like it was said before it's much less institutionalized and there is much less hypocrite political correctness as well.
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EuropEA
Sept 19, 2009 10:48:04 GMT -5
Post by betahat on Sept 19, 2009 10:48:04 GMT -5
EU resistance to Turkey takes place both on a racist/cultural level, due to Turkish immigrants who are predominantly muslim and/or a poor immigrant underclass, and on a political level.
The political level is the most important one for the EU membership. Turkey has a lot of human rights issues - past massacres against Armenians and Kurds that have never been fully acknowledged, continued military conflict with Kurdish rebels in the East including extrajudicial killings by police (probably more Kurds were killed in the last two decades than by Saddam Hussein), the strong political power of the army (which defends Western secularism against an increasingly religious muslim majority that has finally achieved political power), and censorship (youtube is banned, it is against the law to criticize Ataturk or "Turkishness"). Until those issues are resolved to the satisfaction of EU members, Turkey won't be considered civilized enough to join the EU, regardless of what Europeans think of Islam or Turkish immigrants in their countries.
I was in Turkey this summer and it is a beautiful and fascinating country. The ongoing tension between the AKP and the military is still playing itself out right now in the media, as is the debate over secular values (including the issue of veiling and removal of naked statues in town squares - maybe the nudity averse should join forces with John Ashcroft here in the US). I think they will get EU membership (though admittedly I only spent time in Istanbul, which feels much more European and secular than most of the country) but perhaps not for another decade or two.
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EuropEA
Sept 19, 2009 18:19:14 GMT -5
Post by milkman's baby on Sept 19, 2009 18:19:14 GMT -5
Eh, perhaps but it is very much a big problem. I was apprehensive about studying in Moscow because of the reported rise in skinheads, but I have also been told by some Russians that the American media exaggerates the problem out there. Told by white Russians, that is. I've also come under the impression that East Europe is more violently racist because of the economic situation. The most blatant racists in America are often poor white people who like to blame non-whites for their struggles or point out the other groups differences to boost their superiority. They see it through the totem pole sense: Yes, I'm poor. But at least I'm not black. In the case of Russia, it's often Uzbeks and Azerbs at the receiving end of this.
I'm not trying to imply that all Europeans are racists in denial. I was merely trying to shatter the image of Europe as being a liberal and accepting safe haven for all races. It's usually the America-haters that like to view Europe through the rose-tinted glasses.
Anyway, I'm guessing Ganbarel, who refuses to tell us what country he's from, only wants to talk positive about Europe so I'll add that I love kinder eggs. They still make them out there?
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EuropEA
Sept 19, 2009 18:25:41 GMT -5
Post by milkman's baby on Sept 19, 2009 18:25:41 GMT -5
Americans feel so entitled to defend their intellectual supremacy. I'm sorry to hear you live in a rural area in the United States but we non-Americans are under siege by the Americanization of minds led by Internet. It's appalling to see, how biased the Internet is towards American culture and values. This is sad and funny all rolled up into one! And I don't live in a rural area.
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EuropEA
Sept 19, 2009 18:26:04 GMT -5
Post by Ganbare! on Sept 19, 2009 18:26:04 GMT -5
Is this some kind of joke? Do you know where Paris is located? I stated numerous times that I am from France, born and bred...
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