Social class

[Ganbare!]

I'm curious to hear if social status is something important to EAs.

What social class do you consider you belong to? Origin?

Does it matter to you as much/less/more than culture when it comes to relationships or deciding about your own future?

Defining one's place in the social hierarchy is always tricky because it greatly depends on what criteria you take into account but I think education, income, tastes/habitus are a good start.

[betahat]

Upper middle class. And it seems to be that way for at least three generations back. My parents were the first generation with a college education and probably the first to have a net worth of over 1 million in todays dollars. But even going back a while they were literate, enterprising, etc. No bucolic peasants or mill workers here (my great great grandfather was the supervisor of the coal docks in Pictou, not your average coal shoveller, my Asian great grandparents were in banking in Burma/Singapore. No fish-mongers that I'm aware of going back three generations).

I am fascinated by social class and its transmission across generations, and I try not to judge people by it, but it remains an inescapable fact that the number of close friends I have from working class backgrounds can be counted on one hand. It looms large in our lives whether we choose to consider it important or not.

But what about you?

[BTW - my definitions:
upper class - can maintain an upper middle class lifestyle without working
upper middle class- grad school and/or own home and can pay outright for kids college, can retire as soon as social security kicks in
middle class - college education and/or high-paying union job
working class- no college or college but working in a job where a college degree is unnecessary]

[D.A]

I'd gauge my current situation as upper middle class, just without Betahat's definition the own home, pay outright for kids university fees, etc due to my highly rebellious nature... but really, although I'm hope I'll be able to in the future. I do have enough for a deposit on an investment property (1-2 bedroom apartment in nice location) and have already paid off my own university fees.

My Baby boomer parents are working to middle class. I believe my parent's parents ended up becoming working class families due to unfortunate (yet interesting) circumstances, but will have to clarify the facts.

As for relationships, it currently makes no difference whatsoever. Social and/or wealth status has no bearing on my choices however I'd say there is a natural correlation to gravitate towards the middle to upper class due to my attraction towards smart/intelligent women.

betahat, I'd agree with your statement.
I do tend to see myself surrounded by people in similar classes, not by choice but by the situations faced throughout life resulting from the underlying systematic constructs and concepts of the way the world works.

[Subuatai]

Parents were upper middle class, then when I was left alone I started from erm... "scum class", then worked my way to working class, and now hmmm... what class does a bloke belong to if he has little education (except for work qualifications and certificates), yet a high income where he bought his new car with cash alone? Heh

As for my missus she's always been upper class. Before I bought my house my father-in-law actually offered to let us stay in one of his houses but I declined. I don't like to owe people anything. It was worth it though, my house is even bigger then theirs - part of the reason I bought it was for revenge against my mother-in-law who always said I wouldn't be able to provide.

[betahat]

^Parents were upper middle class, then when I was left alone I started from erm... "scum class"

I have to think a little about the definition of that one

^what class does a bloke belong to if he has little education (except for work qualifications and certificates), yet a high income where he bought his new car with cash alone?

Formal education is not a necessary condition. There was a time when too much education would have been considered unbecoming of classy women, though these days it seems like college is a minimum (hard to see Prince William or Harry with a college drop out). However, for me class is distinct from income, which means that you can have lots of money but still project an image and attitude of working or middle class (I always think of the Gallagher brothers from Oasis here - you can't earn your way out of a Manchester accent). It sounds like you have middle to upper-middle class income, and come from a upper middle class background, so you're at least middle class - especially if your highly skilled in technical areas. There are areas where plumbers make over 100k and that's definitely not working class.

[Kalvien]

upper middle class, but not really upper, I mean, I could still afford comfortable living, but not too luxurious. I live more comfortably than most people in my country but not too comfortable like some tycoon.
This makes me want to work harder so I could upgrade my class.

[palaver]

Working upper middle-class prole with a smidgen of Untouchable. My refrigerator is on the porch during the winter and I've watched every episode of The Price Is Right five times. I know nothing about inflation, but what's good for my bed has to be good for the economy. The only time my family had money was during the Antebellum South. We're from a wealthy plantation family and slavery was good to us. I wish we had paid them better. Then there wouldn't have been a Civil War.

[Ganbare!]

It's surprising how may of you come from upper middle class, I remember 3 and a half years ago I wrote basing my claims on anecdotal evidence that people on EAN had higher socioeconomic status than average and I was literally mocked.

My family had a great social mobility. Parents were both from working class families but by their 30's attained the upper class then achieved to lose it all and ended in upper working class.
Thus I can't really define my own place in the hierarchy because even if I have great social habitus, elite education right now I'm poor !

My social circle tend to be from upper middle class but I still have a few from both working and upper classes. I don't care about social status right now nor culture much. I believe that sharing same interests, have chemistry is more important although I know it will probably become an issue with time...

[betahat]

^I remember 3 and a half years ago I wrote basing my claims on anecdotal evidence that people on EAN had higher socioeconomic status than average and I was literally mocked.

It depends what average you compare to. Asians in the West (at least in the US) have higher incomes than whites, who have higher incomes then blacks and latinos. So forget Eurasians who are on EAN - the average Eurasian in the US has above average socioeconomic status. You don't need any anecdotal evidence to tell you that. Even if EAN users were representative of our community (which I suspect not) they would be of above average socioeconomic status. Now whether our white/Asian parents are above average for whites and Asians is harder to tell. It seems like there is a broad spectrum here. Which is not so unexpected, since mixed couples are probably most likely to meet in university (higher class) or in multi-ethnic urban neighborhoods/overseas military (lower class).

But you also have to consider that most Americans consider themselves middle-class, and very few realize that having a household income above $50,000 makes you "above average." John McCain was arguing that the middle-class extends up to 250K+ (the top 1% getting the Bush tax cuts). I didn't think my parents had above average income growing up, and only realized it in my late teens.

[admin]

Sept 20, 2009 20:06:55 GMT -5 Ganbare! said:

I'm curious to hear if social status is something important to EAs.

What social class do you consider you belong to? Origin?

Does it matter to you as much/less/more than culture when it comes to relationships or deciding about your own future?

Defining one's place in the social hierarchy is always tricky because it greatly depends on what criteria you take into account but I think education, income, tastes/habitus are a good start.

My parents were special education teachers. We grew up in a working-class neighborhood alongside a shoe repairman, auto mechanic, cop, insurance salesman, hair stylist, grocery store butcher, etc. From an economic standpoint you can describe it as modest. Both my parents had graduate degrees, so that complicated the 'class' issue. Our 'tastes' (meaning what was forced on us as kids) were strictly discount-basement clothing and hamburger helper dining. Fast food was considered a wasteful splurge and happened only on trips.

I find it hard to assess my place in America's class structure as I have interests that cross many boundaries. Saying middle class is a safe bet I suppose.

[Ganbare!]

Sept 21, 2009 16:54:38 GMT -5 betahat said:

^I remember 3 and a half years ago I wrote basing my claims on anecdotal evidence that people on EAN had higher socioeconomic status than average and I was literally mocked.

It depends what average you compare to. Asians in the West (at least in the US) have higher incomes than whites, who have higher incomes then blacks and latinos. So forget Eurasians who are on EAN - the average Eurasian in the US has above average socioeconomic status. You don't need any anecdotal evidence to tell you that. Even if EAN users were representative of our community (which I suspect not) they would be of above average socioeconomic status. Now whether our white/Asian parents are above average for whites and Asians is harder to tell. It seems like there is a broad spectrum here. Which is not so unexpected, since mixed couples are probably most likely to meet in university (higher class) or in multi-ethnic urban neighborhoods/overseas military (lower class).

But you also have to consider that most Americans consider themselves middle-class, and very few realize that having a household income above $50,000 makes you "above average." John McCain was arguing that the middle-class extends up to 250K+ (the top 1% getting the Bush tax cuts). I didn't think my parents had above average income growing up, and only realized it in my late teens.

I don't really get your point. Broad spectrum does not mean lower average just more disparate around the average value.

[betahat]

Where did I say that a broad spectrum implies lower than average? I said it was hard to tell how people on this forum (and their parents) compare to the Eurasian population average, described why the Eurasian population average is probably above the total population average (at least in the US where whites and Asian have above median incomes), and offered examples of why the circumstances under which EAs are conceived could lead to above and below average incomes. I never made any claim about how people on this web-site relate to the EA population average.

You don't need to tell me the difference between an average and a range. I was hinting that the EA parental social class distribution might be bimodal, but that is just pure speculation on my part. But basically I'm agreeing with you that EANs in general (and probably the ones on this forum) have higher than average socioeconomic status.

My first point about the reference population obviously matters since most people here probably couldn't tell you what the average income or average socioeconomic status is in their country. People who use the internet and people who go on internet forums are probably above average socioeconomic status in general. Are EAN users higher class than the internet message board average? Are they higher class than the Eurasian population average? Who the hell knows? One reason people have trouble and make mistakes doing these kinds of self-assessments is that they don't know what the reference population average is in the first place. They might just base it on their own little neighborhood and circle of association.

[betahat]

I should add that people here (and on the internet generally) are much younger than the population average, which also means poorer than the population average. When you are living with your parents or living as a poor student, it is hard to identify yourself as above average socioeconomic status. Perhaps people thought you were talking about them rather than their parents and family background and thinking more about income and wealth than social class?

[Ganbare!]

It's far clearer when you put things this way. I think you're right about reference population, anyways what I have previously wrote is wrong, my claims at the time were that EAs as a population tended to be richer than average in industrialized nations.

My concept of social class is very broad and not limited to income or occupation but I can't say for people here.

However, I find it funny that social status seems to be a much more important criteria than culture even for EAs. The homogeneity of my social circle is more a matter of circumstances/environment than anything else especially since sharing compatible values and similar hobbies define who I'll befriend before culture/race/class.

[Subuatai]

However, I find it funny that social status seems to be a much more important criteria than culture even for EAs.

HA!

The thing is, I still introduce myself as a working-class dude despite the definitions/criteria brought forward on this thread. Sometimes even lower because I mix better with the "underclass" of society then the uptight "upperclass". Just down-to-earth maybe?

Nonetheless there is no materialistic hierachy in my views. I judge people on a meritocratic basis. And to me it's more of a behavioural criteria then material or racial or etc...