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Post by betahat on Jun 24, 2010 11:29:52 GMT -5
That is a sweet jersey. I'd like Mexico to pull off the upset against Argentina but mostly want a good game. South America still undefeated and Asian teams doing well. I'd love a South American final four - Brazil/Chile vs. Uruguay and Argentina vs. Paraguay, but it would be amazing for an Asian team to make it too.
Ciao Italia, time to rebuild. At least you didn't have a hissy fit like France. Bravo Kiwis, but you're not going to win if you don't get a shot on goal and only 4 in 3 matches.
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Post by LaFace on Jun 25, 2010 4:33:41 GMT -5
Mexico have won me over with the way they've played the game. Really impressed with them in their match against France. I like Dos Santos. The match against Argentina should be a cracker, and I'd expect Mexico to really take it up to the Argies so long as they don't start with Blanco. USA are the team that have won me over the most - drew with England, were absolutely robbed of the winner against Slovenia by the worst decision of any kind I've seen in the tournament so far (and that second half comeback was awe-inspiring), and played one of the most exciting matches of the cup to defeat Algeria. Found myself really barracking for them and going nuts when Donovan scored the winner. I can understand why no one goes for the USA outside of their country, but their sports and entertainment industry always provides great times and I wouldn't mind checking out some of their cities one day, so from my perspective, why not like them? Go yanks! I'll still be strongly supporting any team that plays Brazil. Nothing would give me more joy in this world cup than to see them eliminated from the tournament Argentina are playing the best football so far in my opinion. After their first match, they became my tip for champion. Strongest overall team in terms of defence (as a unit) and attack (as a unit and individually) in my opinion. England vs Germany will be awesome for the 2nd round. Going for England because of the number of world cups Germany have, even though I don't like the EPL. Would love to see a Brazil vs Spain match-up in the 2nd round, but the odds are that they won't be matching up in this round.
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Post by betahat on Jun 25, 2010 16:25:32 GMT -5
2010 South Africa: 6 Euro teams in final 16, 3 in quarters ( ) 2006 Germany: 10 Euro teams in final 16, 6 in quarters (Italy wins) 2002 Korea/Japan: 9 Euro teams in final 16, 4 in quarters (Brazil wins) 1998 France: 10 Euro teams in final 16, 6 in quarters (France wins) So the famous "European teams traveling poorly outside of Europe" appears to have held up quite well this year, including for the round of 16 and quarter finals. With 1 African, 2 North American, 2 Asian and 5 South american teams this is truly a "world" world cup, not just a European championship plus Brazil and Argentina. So you have to like Brazil and Argentina this year, though I wouldn't count out the Dutch, Germans or Spaniards as they have all showed good attacking soccer and I wouldn't be too upset if any of those teams won. I can't wait for my Albiroja to take on the Blue Samurai - should be a very even matchup and I'm very interested to see which team comes out with more pressure and attacking play, since Japan has shown that they are fast and technically very good and we have a tendency to sit back and counterattack, even though we are probably slight favorites. Spain Brazil would have been nice (though Brazil Portugal was a big letdown) but then Spain-Portugal and Chile-Brazil should also be classic matchups. The most amazing thing is that one among the US, Ghana, South Korea, or Uruguay is going to the semis, making that country far exceed expectations and go absolutely nuts!
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Post by betahat on Jun 25, 2010 17:22:23 GMT -5
LaFace, is there some reason you hate Brazil beyond the rivalry with Italy to win the most World Cups and be declared "Greatest Footballing Nation" (all the Brazilians I know cheer against Italy for, it appears, only this reason)? While they have their share of dirty players, famous flops, etc. there are few people outside of Brazil and Italy who would say that Brazil is any worse than Italy on these accounts. And Brazil has always had a few players with great individual flair, even though this year they left out Ronaldinho. This year it was left to Luis Fabiano to bring the flair and he needed two handballs more than Ronaldinho would have needed on that goal! This is the boringest Brazilian team in a while but I get the sense that you didn't like them before either.
Also, my votes on the greatest dives ever. I have to say that even in diving the Spanish and Brazilians are a bit more creative than the Italians. Rivaldo's might be the best ever though I'm not sure it's technically a "dive" since it's more of a groin-face connection.
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Post by LaFace on Jun 25, 2010 20:35:25 GMT -5
I've been strongly anti-Brazil (only in terms of football) since the 1994 world cup final. It was the first world cup I had watched and it ended in 7 year old La Face in tears LOL. Basically beta, it mainly comes down to what you wrote - the rivalry. The rivalry itself doesn't seem to be the nastiest (take a look at the ones involving politics/war where real spite is shown), it's purely based on the football. One side point I don't like though is how Brazil are loved and adored for supposedly playing this attacking and exciting style, when the reality is they haven't played that way this decade, and haven't won a world cup with that style since 1970. I think they uphold this stereotype based on their culture. When the average joe thinks of Brazil, the first images that come to mind are partying, beaches, bright lights and colours - hence the resulting stereotype being the football equivalent. What got broke their drought in 1994 though was employing more defensive tactics, even more so in 2002, and now we have Dunga who bases his entire team around defensive caution. Edit: and I can't believe their half of the draw! I know it's not politically correct to say, but apart from the Dutch, that has got to be the most relatively easiest pathway into the final ever seen! Obviously though, it's not Brazil's fault that Italy and France didn't qualify, and that England couldn't top their group.
I do like Kaka though, definitely a fan of his. When everyone was going on about CR7 being the best in the world, I still thought Kaka was better (and even Robben too). I like all 3 though.
Regarding diving, I think if everyone is being honest with themselves, they'd know that players of all teams dive. There are different types of diving though. There's the type where players can keep their feet but choose not to because they were fouled so they go down easily in order to ensure the free kick - this happens the majority of the time. Then there's the dirty type where no foul is made and the player blatantly dives for no reason other than to gain clean possession. The most important thing to do is question why this is is allowed to happen in the first place. In my opinion, it comes down to:
a) Referees not giving free kicks for fouls (perhaps because they're not good at picking them up?) unless the player goes to ground, so players don't keep their feet in order to ensure they get a free for being fouled. It isn't pretty and I can understand why someone that doesn't watch the sport gets put off by it, especially if they follow a contact sport.
b) Some sort of video refereeing system (akin to tennis) not being employed, and a video review system for penalising certain behaviour not being employed to a significant extent. If you let players get away with something that's going to advantage their team, they're going to do it. Plain and simple.
FIFA with regards to b) is stuck in the stone-age, and is one sport that hasn't caught up with the times. These need to be implemented into the game because a red card or a goal in soccer influence the outcome of a match incredibly, much more so than most other sports because of the number of goals generally scored per game and the fact that a player sent off the pitch cannot be replaced. My personal opinion is that there should be a review system for red cards that is actually used, because referees are human and do make mistakes (FIFA never admit it though, idiots), and teams should be allowed one or two video refereeing challenges per half (or something along those lines, like in tennis), so that borderline calls can be made correct and incorrect decisions don't influence the game in a massive way.
Anyway, as for diving, Torres made a fantastic one last night that got the Chilean player sent off. Chile were playing so well until that point, taking it right up to the Spanish. I reckon it would've been 1-1 had it been 11 vs 11 as it should've been.
As for Europe vs South America in terms of performace at certain locations, I think it's a combination of european teams generally not performing as well outside of europe, but also the Asian confederation really improving as a whole, as well as the south american confederation really improving in terms of defence in recent years.
Beta, what's your view on the States? I find it kinda funny that I'm really going for them yet you don't seem to. Donovan, Altidore and Bradley FTW.
/rant
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palavore
Full Member
I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I make gold posts.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Posts: 298
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Post by palavore on Jun 25, 2010 20:54:04 GMT -5
I wonder what the repercussions of that loss were IN North Korea - whether fearless leader ordered more kids to go to soccer camps or instead declared that soccer was forbidden and was to be replaced with intensive table tennis competitions. Nah, they just reenacted the match with paid western actors losing to the North Korean team. Italy and France could've bowed out a little more gracefully. I'm cheering for Ghana now, thanks to the Socceroos. Ghana is fun to watch. I like that dance they do and their goalkeeper is a ninja.
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Post by betahat on Jun 25, 2010 22:28:02 GMT -5
Oh, I'm definitely excited by the US team this year, and I would like them to do well to really raise the profile of soccer in the US. It doesn't hurt that everyone around me is a US fan. But if I'm honest with myself I don't want them to win it all - I'd like to see them in the final, avenging the confederations cup loss to Brazil, and then taken out by Paraguay or Argentina in the final. That will never happen of course. But let's hope they can create some more excitement at least - this is the most fired up I've ever seen Americans about a World Cup, not because their team is that good but because of their thrilling come from behind style. The worst outcome would be a 0-0 draw with Ghana and loss on penalty kicks - somehow I doubt that will happen.
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Ginny
Junior Member
Posts: 141
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Post by Ginny on Jun 26, 2010 17:57:57 GMT -5
So disappointed with South Korea's loss, it was really close as well.. in their really offensive phase they deserved at least one goal, sigh.
My sympathies go to Ghana and Japan now, I quite liked watching them. (And I really want Ghana to kick Uruguay out...)
The Germany-euphoria gets a bit annoying for me, so I don't feel any need to cheer for them. The loss to Serbia taught them, I hope.. We'll see about England, I'm actually not biased and want whoever plays better to win.
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Post by betahat on Jun 27, 2010 16:34:20 GMT -5
Wow, they really need some instant replay. There have been lots of questionable calls over the years but the ones this year seem really memorable and blatant. And it would be so easy to fix. Just have video replay whenever: (a)a goal is scored (check that it went over the goal line, that everyone was onside, no handball by offensive player) (b)a penalty is awarded for handball or foul in the box and maybe (a bit trickier) whenever the ball looks like it might have crossed the goal line (I guess you would do the review when the play ends, so players have to play through)
ALSO have (c)referees have to explain what the call is whenever they blow a whistle AND do replay after the game and fine or red card (one match ban) players for diving.
With the goals you wouldn't even need replay -just use sensors in the net or ball.
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Post by LaFace on Jun 28, 2010 4:00:42 GMT -5
England vs Germany
Mexico vs Argentina
Another two blatant and disgraceful decisions over night!
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Post by davidbleo on Jun 29, 2010 2:37:19 GMT -5
Even when our defeat (Mexico) began with a goal made by a player which was clearly in offside... I don't think a video review will help 'cause football is a really "fast" in the way the ball should not be stopped unless there is a foul, a goal or the ball going out of the field... so to stop the ball only to see if it was a foul isn't a good idea... and what if it wasn't... you will award the team which did not commit the foul with a free kick, or what? 'cause the ball would have been stopped when it would have been in motion and the players will have, in that case, the chance to move to different positions... it would change a lot! The point here is that in some cases the ball should be stopped when it should be in motion and that will change the way football is played too much... I think 2 or 4 pair of eyes more near each corner would do the job better and keep rules just as they are. And if a video review of controversial decisions is made after the match, it isn't good either 'cause during the match itself that moment affected the history of the match thereafter... for example our team is always dead if they receive a goal against, they lost their heads after thar decision from the referee, so it already changed the whole game... the other goals came with some sort of butterfly effect, so even if the referees make a video review we'd lost 2-1 (it's not an excuse, they suck and they'll never reach the quarter finals with such thinking... we should learn from the US team, which showed more passion and commitment that many teams there) I think the real problem with the FIFA is corruption but practically nobody addresses this on TV... for example, Sepp Blatter wanted the World Cup in 2006 to be in South Africa... 12 of the delegates voted for Germany and 11 for South Africa... the one left which was from New Zealand didn't vote 'cause he was under presure to vote for South Africa 'cause Sepp Blatter as presindent will decide the draw in favour of South Africa... so when he lost his chance he (Blatter) invented the World Cup rotation system... so in 2010 it had to be in Africa, and between Egypt Morocco and South Africa there was only one real possibility... My conclusion... more eyes on the field and stop corruption inside the FIFA...
And I think referees in World Cup matches are partial and not only partial, but they have orders to favour one team to make the Cup better or more entertaining... as I said before, the first goal they take from the US... "oh well, it happens to everyone some time" but when I saw the second goal, which was a valid one... it cannot be a coincidence. (just remember the arranged games scandal in Italy a few years ago, the one that sent Juventus to se second division... you can hide that from the public, but you cannot hide it from the big bosses if almost all referees know about it... Blatter and Platini knew it)
And I want Germany to win the Cup, for them to have another championship, which they deserve... Ghana, for Africa to win it's Cup (which is also what the FIFA will try to do)... but actually it would be nice to see a classic match like Argentina vs Brazil at the final!!! And the Netherlands deserve to win for the first time... their "total football" was a huge innovation and one of the only joys in the age of defensive tactics
Maradona saying he just did it to see what happens, that he did that before when he was younger ("the hand of god goal")... when he saw that the ball actually went inside he ran to celebrate his "goal"... when he saw that the goalie ran to the referee to complain, he (Maradona told to his teammates to come and hug him)... he said his mates didn't want to hug him, they did it in a shy way like saying "we're stealing"...
"In 1986, winning that game against England was enough. Winning the World Cup was secondary for us. Beating England was our real aim" -Roberto Perfumo (former Argentinian footballer, former couch and current sport analyst)
Goal of the Century
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Post by betahat on Jun 29, 2010 17:23:43 GMT -5
What I said above means you would only do review if the game was already stopped (for a goal or penalty kick). You're still going to have non-offsides called offsides - you can't go back on that because players react to the call. But they don't react to non-calls - so if a player appears to have scored a goal, you can check by video review that he was on-side. It wouldn't affect the flow of the game at all. It would have taken a few seconds to see that Tevez's goal should be disallowed.
The trickier thing is if the ball goes in the net but the referee doesn't call it. Then the play isn't stopped. For goal-line calls they should use an automated system - sensors in the net or ball - so if the ball crosses the line a light goes off, if it doesn't then no goal. Again, no problem with the flow of the game. Video replay for handballs/fouls in the box that result in penalties is a bit trickier since that involves some subjectivity, but these things happen so rarely and have such a big impact in games - and the play stops anyway when the foul is called - I think it's worth it.
Finally, the post game review is only to see if players really deserve a match ban for red card or two consecutive yellows, and to punish obvious dives. It doesn't change the outcome of the game - just the personnel for the next game. That's probably the hardest thing to do since 90% of dives involve some physical contact, but diving is one of the worst things with the sport and I'm 100% in favor of taking some measures to minimize it.
Anyway, 4 South American teams, 3 European teams and one African. Paraguay won ugly in a pretty even match today but that's how you do it when you routinely play the big boys like Brazil and Argentina. Japan looked great against Denmark but Paraguay has a physical shut-down defense much better than what Denmark had to offer, and they did a good job of not giving Japan too many free kick opportunities. Sad to see Japan go as they were my number two team left in the tournament. I get the feeling Spain will annhilate us on Saturday but you never know - our best hope might be to sit back and play for penalties again.
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Post by davidbleo on Jun 30, 2010 1:58:38 GMT -5
Mmhh... then video review wouldn't be that bad!! But only for the World Cup or other important international competitions or at least it shouldn't be mandatory for all FIFA matches... in more than 200 nations (many federations cannot afford it)...
I wanted Portugal to win at today's match! Now I support Germany (as the country I've spent more time besides Mexico)... the game against Argentina will be a tough one though... and even if Germany loses, Brazil against Germany would be a great... or Germany vs the Netherlands. I guess, besides all the controversy (vuvuzelas, referees) this has been a good World Cup after all...
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Post by betahat on Jun 30, 2010 17:48:36 GMT -5
The Nike curse in full effect:
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palavore
Full Member
I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I make gold posts.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Posts: 298
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Post by palavore on Jul 2, 2010 17:58:28 GMT -5
Ghana is out. Japan is out. The crossbar sent both of my teams home. What luck! No reason to watch anymore. The Germans are right though... those South Americans can play some thug football.
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