|
Post by cewek on May 31, 2007 8:16:34 GMT -5
hmm. I'm going to think about this one properly before I post Cel.I have a friend who is of aboriginal descent but whos mother was adopted by a religious white family, which was also a part of the way people dealt with aboriginal children -particularly those of mixed race. It is referred to as " the stolen generation" But as an aside, in the top end of australia there is a history of chinese/indonesian/japanese people mixing with the indigenous aboriginals and producing offspring. www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/Oceania/AsianAboriginal.htmApparantly in Broome there are quote a few aborigines with chinese heritage. And apparantly Broome is just beautiful-must go someday.
|
|
|
Post by avax on May 31, 2007 9:04:33 GMT -5
Cewek, Are these 'aboriginals' (I'm still trying to get used to this word.. it grates and somehow seems derogatory) and their half-aboriginal children accepted into asian or aboriginal communities ? What about 'white' australians - do most of them prefer to turn a blind eye? I found this. www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/hreoc/stolen_summary/stolen04.htmlDo you hear from this council much? (in media,news) Are they active? It reminded me of our assembly of first nations. Made me think of the first nations peoples here also and while I don't know much I do have really white looking friends who claim that their great grandparent are part first nations. This came up a lot when it came to field school and liasing with first nations where some with X amount of blood had priviledges to make trips into the community or engage in excavations/participate in conferences where they physically stick out like a sore thumb (but are accepted openly). Thanks for the link. But I wonder what the relationships between the marginalized people were.. Canada too has a history of asian (chinese, not sure about japanese) immigrants producing mixed children with first nations but I got the sense that their children were illegitimate in the asian community, seemed to be more accepted in first nations. Frankly from what I know of asians, this fits the profile of people like the chinese, so I wonder how these mixed children were treated in their respective communities. Maybe they didn't even have a chance with europeans going all out with their institutionalization.. Those titles they gave themselves back then ... "Western Australian Aboriginal Protector" ... thanks. Thanks for protecting yourself.
|
|
|
Post by chinesejewfool on May 31, 2007 14:49:50 GMT -5
Hmmm... I think you need to spend some time living in Australia CJF to really see how it is. While I agree that what happened to Australian Aborigines in the past was terrible I don't think it excuses they way many behave today. My mother grew up in poverty in the Philippines. No elecricity or running water. Both her parents died from TB when she was a kid. Neither she nor her siblings stole or lashed out violently. Instead the older ones banded together and worked multiple jobs to look after the younger ones. My Dad came from a white trash background. His mother was selling her blood at one point to get money. They even took the 30 cents a week he earned on a chicken farm to feed the family. He didn't turn to crime. Aborigines are involved in government. They get hundreds of millions in funding, special health programs, free legal representation and get paid to go to school. Most seem to choose not to take up these opportunities. Poverty is no excuse for beating up complete strangers, bashing your women or raping toddlers in your community. Yeah, some white Australians may have descended from convicts but at least most of them don't act like convicts or savages. Yet is the Phillipines a sovereign nation now? It's a lot more complicated than you are making it. When you get your country and culture completely stripped from you, and have 90% of your population killed off, it is hard to recover. How many political seats do Aborigines hold? It's somewhat similar in the USA besides the rapings. In the native American community, none of them hold any political seats. Most of the ancestors were killed off by whites. Their culture was killed too when they were put on "reservations" aka concentration camps, where they were forced to "westernize". Poverty and alcoholism is rampant. That's what happens when you kill somebody's culture. The phillipine culture is still well and alive. And 90% of Filipinos weren't killed off. Totally difference circumstances. Why don't the whites in Australia act like convicts? Because they got rich off the Aborigine land which they stole. And a few reparation checks will never make up for the population that died as a result of convicts coming in. We think lowly of dictators like Hitler and Stalin because of their genocide, yet we forget that Americas and Australia were founded on genocide of the native tribal people. The Indigenous Australian population, estimated at 350,000 at the time of European settlement,[8] declined steeply for 150 years following settlement, mainly because of infectious disease combined with forced re-settlement and cultural disintegration. The removal of children from their families, which some historians and Indigenous Australians have argued could be considered to constitute genocide by some definitions,[9] may have contributed to the decline in the indigenous population. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia
|
|
|
Post by chinesejewfool on May 31, 2007 14:57:04 GMT -5
CJF: You really can't say much when you don't see it with your own eyes. I to could not believe a lot of smack my Aussie friends would say about the Aborigines, I was really pissed and told them how can they say such things about them making them sound like animals. Ummm... yeah did I ever eat my words when I saw with my own eyes not saying all but yeah...... It's not about them being pissed because they are poor and ill educated it's because some of them really don't give a sh*t. There are areas where the Gov has built nice homes for them and what do they do tear it down and use it for fire wood, they rather live in the park with no shelter. I have even seen them have sex in public broad daylight and they don't care if it's their daughter or sister of whatever. I also have met some really great Aborigines that have come a long way and really want to make a better life for them and use the means in a positive way the Gov has offered. But really you can't try to make it sound like you know it when you haven't even seen it, sorry.... My dad teaches at a Native American reservation in Lemoore, California. Cristobol might know about it since he was in the area. Gang violence, spoiled kids with their mopeds off US government/casino checks, alcoholism, suicide. Not the same but similar. What I do know is 90% of their population was massacred and those who were left were forced to assimilate. When you kill somebodies culture you kill what little civility you have. What do African Americans, Aborignes, Native Americans, natives in latin america all have in common? All of their land was taken and 90+% of their people were massacred and their culture was destroyed. At the same time Violence, rape, rampant poverty is what all these people have in common. All of their people were enslaved, or their land was taken, their cultures were destroyed and they were forced to assimilate. Don't sit here and tell me you can't connect the dots. You're a smart woman Lady, a genius. It's more complicated than you are making it out to be. Instead of lashing out at these people, we should be looking for the reasons why they act the way they do. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that what happened to their ancestors and cultures had nothing to do with the white man.
|
|
|
Post by ladystacey on May 31, 2007 16:40:56 GMT -5
^ I'm not lashing out sorry you read it that way and I know it's all more complicated then what it really is but over all I know a difference with the Aborigines with lets say the native Americans is their genetic makeup and so on. I know the Aborigines brain works a lot different to because of that. Oddly I have been told because of their different genetic makeup up the half caste or half blood Aborigines have a lot of issues. I didn't see to many people having issues with the full blooded Aborigines they didn't seem to act out the same way the half or part Aborigines did. In terms of the Gov housing they didn't say you have to live here, it was more like this is your home no cost if you want it. The Aborigines I think are treated pretty well, the Australian government seemed to be really supportive about maintaining the Aborigines culture and they even put a lot of money for it to. When my friend was a kid for some reason people thought she was half Aborigines when she is Scottish, pale white and red head with freckles and all. But anyhow all the time at school the teachers gave her all free school supplies and had her go to Aborigines cultural events and class's but she wasn't Aborigines, LOL. As for them acting out in violence by rape or murder or theft I think there is no excuse for that, I'm sorry but society doesn't condone that kind of behavior weather you are white, asian, black or green we are not animals and with my eyes I did not see Aborigines being treated like one. Maybe the Gov expects to little from them, maybe that's the problem. You can go on and on about history and all the mistakes man kind or A.K.A the white man has made but all that matters is now, you can't make a better life for yourself or others by using the mistakes of the pass you can only learn and grow from it and move on. "If someone isn't what others want them to be, the others become angry. Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own."
|
|
|
Post by catgirl on Jun 1, 2007 11:45:04 GMT -5
Some say that some asians are mixed with aborgines. And that Sri lanka and India have big numbers of them.
|
|
0
New Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by 0 on Jun 1, 2007 12:15:14 GMT -5
Some say that some asians are mixed with aborgines. And that Sri lanka and India have big numbers of them. I think it's the opposite. Modern genomics shows dna strains from India and other parts of asia present in the Australian aboriginal population. There are black people (pygmies also known as Negritos or negrillos) in the Andaman islands, parts of Thailand and the Phillipines.
|
|
|
Post by catgirl on Jun 1, 2007 13:44:23 GMT -5
Some say that some asians are mixed with aborgines. And that Sri lanka and India have big numbers of them. I think it's the opposite. Modern genomics shows dna strains from India and other parts of asia present in the Australian aboriginal population. There are black people (pygmies also known as Negritos or negrillos) in the Andaman islands, parts of Thailand and the Phillipines. So Indian are black? Im a bit confused...lol.
|
|
|
Post by catgirl on Jun 1, 2007 13:45:04 GMT -5
Do any of you Aussies know if Bindi Irwin has aboriginal, Asian, or Irish ancestry? Never liked the "exotic" label but Bindi and Devon Aoki are two girls I would label "exotic" Is that Steve Irwins daughter? I think she looks alot like her mum.
|
|
0
New Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by 0 on Jun 1, 2007 14:20:27 GMT -5
I think it's the opposite. Modern genomics shows dna strains from India and other parts of asia present in the Australian aboriginal population. There are black people (pygmies also known as Negritos or negrillos) in the Andaman islands, parts of Thailand and the Phillipines. So Indian are black? Im a bit confused...lol. There are SOME groups like the Dravidians that appear to have African genetic strains. I guess the point of my previous post was to say that Australian "Aborigines" did not originate there but simply arrived prior to white Europeans and are the result of intermixing with other migrating ethnic groups of southeast asia.
|
|
|
Post by ladystacey on Jun 1, 2007 17:08:27 GMT -5
^ I think her dad came from a Irish or British ancestry and her mom is an American and just Caucasian as well. She doesn't look like either one of her parents but looking closer I can see features from booth parents just odd how her features came out more dominating then what her parents have.
|
|
|
Post by miaim on Jun 3, 2007 4:05:52 GMT -5
no offense, but this thread tops all the others for making EAs look.....frivilous, self-centered and prejudiced...surely none of you would talk about whites or asians the way you have about people of african or aborigine or native american descent in this thread....one broad, negative generalisation after another....
& what's even more shocking, or depressing, is that most of you do not seem to realise your posts would not be out of place on stormfront....
aw well....at least i can't say i'm really surprised....
peace
|
|
|
Post by ladystacey on Jun 4, 2007 16:28:48 GMT -5
^ I seen just as many postings by random posters in regards to whites and asians just as negatively. I don't think it's EA's in general that come off that way I think 90% of all society is like that and if they deny it they are full of it. It's not right but it's part of human nature to have that instinct to separate and think differently of groups since the dawn of mankind It would be nice if we all could be more like Jesus ;D
|
|
thea
Full Member
Posts: 334
|
Post by thea on Jun 5, 2007 1:09:57 GMT -5
From a U.S. perspective since this is a capitalistic society, that seems to thrive on competition and one-upmanship, and also a pecking order, well the way things are set up darker people, particularly those of U.S. African-American descent (not recent African and Latino/Carribean blacks) in a generalized sense are placed at the bottom. Initially, European immigrants had no animosity against American blacks, but the way capitalists set things up they didn't want working class immigrant Europeans teaming up with the local working class blacks and unionizing etc. An atmosphere of animosity was created to prevent the 2 groups from uniting in a common cause. For example, when the Irish immigrated to the U.S. during the potato famine, the were considered "nonwhite" which had nothing to do with their skin color but more to do with their religion and political beliefs. Alot of the Irish were sympathetic to black folk. However, in order for the new immigrants to increase their social standing and most especially their financial standing they had to give up these old beliefs and side with the views of those who controlled the society and economy-the WASPS. After some time they were no longer considered "nonwhite" paddies but full fledged white folk. Succeeding immigrants followed this pattern, so now its mostly non-blacks vs. blacks. Logically, no one is really racist about skin color (I hope). I've seen dark S.E. Asians. and Indians and no thoughts for superiority/inferiority filter through my mind. However, in this country association with black people (and logically alot of them aren't even literally "dark") there is a connotation of a loss of social prestige and advancement especially in the economic aspect. There are affluent and working class black folks but what is constantly shown by the media are images of the black urban poor, caught in the cycle of poverty. There are actually more poor white folks on welfare than black folk, but those poor white folk are spread out evenly in rural/suburban/ and urban areas. As to dating a black guy-yes, so long as he fit my criteria of what I find attractive in a guy. (However, this is a moot point since I am married.) I admit I have a preference in looks-light to medium brown. Personalitywise, he'd have to share the same interests and yes religion. (I am not into the urban, bling, bling, hip-hop scene. Nor am I into the uber coporate guy. Or bland Gap guys. I tend to like quirky people of all ethnic types.) I have found that the black guys that non-black girls tend to like are the ones that don't fit into the box their particular black community may have them pegged in. For example, at one of the local Catholic parishes I attend one of the few black parishioners is a this really dark black man in his late 70s. His wife is white. They were the first black/white couple to integrate his particular neighborhood back in the 50s. He's really interesting to talk to. His story is in a book about interracial marriages, that came out a fews years ago. (I'll post the title, when I find it.) We talked about the color line and passing etc. I think he left his kids to self-identify for themselves what they felt comfortable with. Though at the time I spoke to him, he was questioning whether that had been the right decision. (His kids are grown with kids of their own.) In his younger years, back in the late 40s, he left his small town in Texas(there were alot of lynchings in Texas) and went to New York and even joined the Young Communist organization. (That's an unusual political group for a young black guy to join back then. Alot of Afrocentric types even think an authentic black person is a Democrat.) He met his wife in New York and they married there. In my Swing dance class there is this young black guy (the only black guy) who also does tap and jazz/modern dance. Anyhow, he's in good dancer's shape, I am not attracted to him as an object of desire. He's only about 20 years old. I can see why the rest of the younger girls(there are no black girls in this class, everyone is either Asian, white and a couple of Hispanic people)like him, and why the older women are at ease with him. He puts people at ease because he's funny and cute. He's seen as nonthreatening, because he's not displaying behaviors associated with the negative stereotypes presented by the media. That seems to be his natural persona. (I'm sure the more Afrocentric folks would probably call him a Tom.) Anyhow, yes I would date a black guy who shared my same interests/values but honestly growing up in the U.S. I'd probably have some insecurities about it. I'm married to a white guy, which seems to be pretty common, but there will be times of insecurities because of outside perceptions. i.e. I won't necessarily go to certain places, if I feel I will be the only non-white person there. I know this was a long post. Here is an interesting website: interracialvoice.com/sweet12.html After World War II, Chinese-Americans (at left) in Mississippi Whitened themselves in the traditional way. Community leaders influenced Chinese males to end relationships with African-American females, to expel Afro-Chinese kin, and to force such biracial families to leave the Chinese community. They ended friendships with African-Americans and ceased interacting courteously with Black customers. In the presence of Whites, they joked stereotypically about Blacks. They excluded African-Americans from birthday parties, weddings, and funerals. The strategy paid off. By the late 1960s, Chinese-American children attended White schools and universities. They joined Mississippi's infamous White citizen's councils, became members of White churches, were defined as White on driver's licenses, and could marry White.17
|
|
|
Post by 2bob on Jun 5, 2007 2:56:33 GMT -5
Blacks tend to be rougher because they grow up in poorer neighborhoods. I know Mexicans and Asians just as rough as blacks...and guess what, THEY LIVE IN POOR AREAS. It's poverty that causes the "gangstuh" attitude, not race as you said. I disagree wholeheartedly. I live a stone's throw away from Redfern, Sydney's inner-city "ghetto", and you'd occasionally run into a marauding band of Aborigines looking for trouble. A few months ago I nearly got into a fight with a bunch of youths who were shooting spitballs and jumping onto cars like animals in a zoo. They were harassing hard-working, law-abiding people, regardless of race or gender... white, Asian, Hispanic, male, female, whatever. Our government throws money at them, and what do they spend it on? Drugs and alcohol? The only "poverty" they suffer is self-made. In fact one can live a relatively-cosy life just from government hand-outs (ask the French). You can also argue that if they're really poor, then they'd be begging for food such as in the Third World or the Depression era... the fact that they can find time to commit crime and laze about suggests that there is no genuine poverty at all. It's logical to say that if people become "gangstuh" because of their neighbourhood, then you're really saying that they do so because of each other (i.e. themselves). Yeah sure the government does give them money, but because a majority of them haven't been educated very well, they don't know what to do with the money, do they?
|
|