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Post by Tricky on May 24, 2005 9:29:39 GMT -5
If I covered up their face and just looked at their eyes I wouldn't be able to tell. Eyes are just a part of someone facial makeup you can't guess what ethnicity they are by looking at someone's eyes.
But if I see what you're getting at, I think some traits are distinct with some ethnic groups. That's how we separate Asians from Blacks and Blacks from Whites etc. And eyes happen to be one of them imo.
But for example with some Eurasians, all their facial features could resemble those that are commonly found among Caucasians but it could be their eyes that make them look more Asian.
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Post by boxrebl on May 24, 2005 9:48:07 GMT -5
If I covered up their face and just looked at their eyes I wouldn't be able to tell. Eyes are just a part of someone facial makeup you can't guess what ethnicity they are by looking at someone's eyes. But if I see what you're getting at, I think some traits are distinct with some ethnic groups. That's how we separate Asians from Blacks and Blacks from Whites etc. And eyes happen to be one of them imo. That's my point, a "race" is just a bell curve template of average traits. The problem comes in when we mentally superimpose that average template (stereotype) onto everyone of that "race," even if it does not match that individual's reality. Then, we start seeing what we expect to see, vs what is actually there. And you admit these guys' eyes are racially-ambiguous, yet then claim those same racially-ambiguous traits are what's used to ID different races. You see a slight problem there?
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Post by vick on May 24, 2005 12:41:29 GMT -5
^ Agreed, but look at those pics I posted. Take all that into account and tell me what race eyes each person has. The first man(I know that he is not from Middle Asia) looks like Middle Asian, that is Caucasian+ Mongoloid=Turanid. The Turanid group is the predominant element in Kazakhstan and is also common in Turkey. The second one is Mongoloid, round, broad face, weak chin. Probably he is Chinese. The third one looks Turanid too. He looks Japanese though. The forth (black man) belongs to Khoisanid race.
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Post by boxrebl on May 24, 2005 12:59:46 GMT -5
the first man looks like Middle Asian, that is Caucasian+ Mongoloid=Turanid The Turanid group is the predominant element in Kazakhstan and is also common in Turkey. The second one is a clear mongolid to me, round, broad face. Probably he is Chinese. The third one looks like Turanid too. The forth (black man) belongs to Khoisanid race. These are all well-known countrymen. None are known to be "Turkish." 1) Yang LuChan - Chinese founder of Yang-style Taijiquan 2) Sun Yatsen - Chinese Nationalist founder 3) Morihei Ueshiba - Japanese founder of Aikido 4) Benicio DelToro - Latino actor 5) Sam Cassell - Black American NBA player Also, you're assuming that Turanids are crossbreeds when they may have just been a common Caucasian/Mongoloid ancestor who later forked into those 2 later selective populations. And if that's the case, then the features of such common ancestors could still naturally appear in either group - with differing frequency. I mean, I seriously doubt the world started out with ~4 separate races where our particular features can all be traced back to each like Mr. Potatohead. More likely it was more the other way around where many common features found now are often due to common ancient ancestry, not recent hybridizing.
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Post by vick on May 24, 2005 13:12:15 GMT -5
the first man looks like Middle Asian, that is Caucasian+ Mongoloid=Turanid The Turanid group is the predominant element in Kazakhstan and is also common in Turkey. The second one is a clear mongolid to me, round, broad face. Probably he is Chinese. The third one looks like Turanid too. The forth (black man) belongs to Khoisanid race. These are all well-known countrymen. None are known to be "Turkish." ^ There is no way, they look "Turkish". I actually guessed their ethnicities correctly. There are overlapses, as Turanids, Tungids and people of Northeast Asian race are neighbors.
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Post by boxrebl on May 24, 2005 13:28:52 GMT -5
^ There is no way, they look Turkish. I actually guess their ethnicities correctly, there are overlapses though, as Turanids and Tungids are neighbors. "No way?" Lol, any possible Turkish ancestry these men might have hypothetically had would have been so minute as to be insignificant overall. Let's say one had an unknown Turkish great-great-grandparent. That would make them 1/16 Turkish. Someone who is 1/6 Turkish and 15/16 Chinese is simply going to look...full Chinese. For there to be marked influence - they would have to be 1/2 Turkish, or 1/4 at the very LEAST. Well sorry, but I'm pretty sure a martial arts master from Qing Dynasty Hebei Province (NE China - faaarrrr away from Turkey/Silk Road) did NOT have a Turkish parent! Hmm, maybe your strict stereotyping is just wrong instead? What is a "Tungid?"
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Post by dolcedolce on May 24, 2005 15:53:14 GMT -5
i;m double but my eyelids are really small (is that the word?) if i look up in a certain way it's like i dont even have eyelids.
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Post by vick on May 24, 2005 16:04:20 GMT -5
but I'm pretty sure a martial arts master from Qing Dynasty Hebei Province (NE China - faaarrrr away from Turkey/Silk Road) did NOT have a Turkish parent! There is Ainuid race in Japan, being partly Europids, they differ from people of Northeast Asian race. Hmm, maybe your strict stereotyping is just wrong instead? What are you talking about? I didn't take anything from my head.
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Post by dolcedolce on May 24, 2005 16:06:30 GMT -5
There is Ainuid race in Japan, being partly Europids, they differ from people of Northeast Asian race. that sounds pretty interesting theres also this place in .. i can't remmeber if its in macedonia or greek but its a village where everyone is mixed with like middle eastern and greek (or macedonian) whichever one it is.
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Post by boxrebl on May 24, 2005 16:14:36 GMT -5
There is Ainuid race in Japan, being partly Europids, they differ from people of Northeast Asian race. Actually, I was referring to Yang LuChan who is from China, not Japan. There is no recordable presence of Ainu in NE China, or Turks, for that matter. Sorry.
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Post by vick on May 24, 2005 16:41:52 GMT -5
China borders Kazakhstan, population of Kazakhstan is predominantly Turanid.
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Post by boxrebl on May 24, 2005 16:44:17 GMT -5
China borders Kazakhstan, population of Kazakhstan is predominantly Turanid. Again, if you will notice, Hebei is on the OPPOSITE side of China as it's "-stan" border. It is separated by about 1500 miles of harsh, unpopulated steppe terrain. And there were no planes, trains and cars back in the 1800s to traverse this distance. Sorry. Are you going to stop trying now? Or are you gonna tell me that Turks had flying carpets back in those days?
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Post by vick on May 24, 2005 16:48:32 GMT -5
China borders Kazakhstan, pupulation of Kazakhstan is predominantly Turanid. Again, if you will notice, Hebei is on the OPPOSITE side of China as it's "-stan" border. It is separated by about 1500 miles of harsh, unpopulated steppe terrain. And there were no planes, trains and cars back in the 1800s to traverse this distance. Sorry. Are you going to stop trying now? Or are you gonna tell me that Turks had flying carpets back in those days? Why don't you google for some information. You don't know anything about athropology. Who told you that there should be presence of Turks to make Turanids out of Chinese? ???That's just stupid. There are not many Turanids in Turkey, it is only admixture there which isn't more than 15%.
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Post by Aiko on May 24, 2005 16:55:24 GMT -5
I think you mean "Turkic?" But what IS Turkic though? There are yellow Turks and there are white Turks. Turks look anywhere from East Asian to Caucasian. Turk describes their culture, but not ethnicity. There is no doubt that there are Slavic Turks and Asian Turks. Everyone in the "Turkic race" is mixed Mongoloid (I hate this word) and Caucasoid.
I would say 1/16 is pretty darn significant though. I have a cousin who is 1/16 Russian and 15/16 Asian looks pretty mixed. There are cases where the Caucasian/Asian genes are so strong that it gets carried down for 2, 3, 4 generations.
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Post by Aiko on May 24, 2005 17:03:22 GMT -5
They did, however, have horses. They traveled hundreds of miles with ease. These people lived a nomadic life and left their marks everywhere. Chinese history books has numerous records of the Xiongnu, Mongols, and Turks raiding from the Northwest. When they raided the Chinese settlements, only men came, and when they are captured, many were forced to assimilate. The Chinese Jews in Kaifeng is the result of such sort of migration and integration. Jews came to China to spread Judaism and eventually assimilated to the Chinese population. Their journey stopped in Kaifeng, which is in Southern China. I have met people from there who look rather racially ambiguous, even though their Jewish ancestor was from 3 or 4 generations ago.
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