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Post by Ganbare! on May 13, 2010 21:29:05 GMT -5
How much racism can you bear from people around you and society? Are you more tolerant to racism directed at other communities than Whites/Asians/EAs?
Although it's not very moral, I don't mind racism against Caucasians as collectively I think they have earned it however I feel bad when it happens to Asians or Eurasians.
I cannot tolerate anything beyond the occasional racist joke but I have to admit it's less unbearable when it targets other races..
Last afternoon me and a friend spotted a mixed-race couple at the ice cream store and the first thing he noticed was their heritages, we have been so conditioned by the image of mixed-race couples in the media, we don't view them as human beings anymore but as objects/ethnics, I wonder if it this tagging will ever end.
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Post by FreckleFoot on May 14, 2010 10:48:30 GMT -5
I dislike any racism. I do not feel Caucasians deserve any racism simply because many from their race have committed it. If they themselves have been racist, then perhaps they would deserve any backlash they might get, but an innocent person that has never had any racist thoughts, let alone done anything to someone who is not white... I don't see why that should be 'okay'.
In a way it allows people to take advantage. For example, when nothing has been done to harm somebody, they can pull out the race card and take advantage of all the Caucasian people because of the colour of their skin (white = automatically racist and the race-card-puller's word is trusted more than theirs). This is usually because people don't want to accept Caucasians can be taken advantage of by other races, or they believe they deserve to be taken advantage of. The white people cannot deny anything as it will simply be seen as them trying to cover up their racism or even justify it when it didn't happen. I don't see it as a positive development.
I saw a very interesting documentary on TV. Where a woman attempted to show a bunch of white people what it is like to suffer racism. Some of them didn't have a clue. I recall one woman comparing racist abuse to her husband being told to wear certain clothes at work... It opened the eyes of some people, but, as you can see, with others it was a lost cause. There are some that will never realise what it is like until they experience it for themselves in real life.
I think I can be rather tolerant if it's clear everyone's joking around and no one has any hurt feelings, but if people are serious and clearly have a very negative view of people of a certain colour... I'm not going to stick around. I want that person out of my life.
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Post by jefe on May 14, 2010 12:10:09 GMT -5
How much racism can you bear from people around you and society? Are you more tolerant to racism directed at other communities than Whites/Asians/EAs? Although it's not very moral, I don't mind racism against Caucasians as collectively I think they have earned it however I feel bad when it happens to Asians or Eurasians. How do you feel when Caucasians collectively have earned racist treatment, but when that anti-Caucasian racist treatment is also directed to YOU, as someone who is part-Caucasian? Do you feel that you need to disassociate yourself form the target of that racism ("Hey, man, I may be part white, but I certainly ain't *white*), or do you feel a compulsion to diffuse the racism (Yeah, those white dudes suck, but just because you have white blood in you does not mean you automatically suck. Not all white people suck.). As a Eurasian who may be relocating to Asia, I can almost guarantee that you will experience some anti-white or anti-foreigner sentiment directed towards you -- indeed, you might have even experienced this already in Europe or America. Yes, but as a Eurasian, how do you define "other races"? Maybe all monoracials? ("Mixed people are cool; monoracials SUCK") As a Eurasian, you may be both around Asians who target whites in their racial remarks, as well as around Caucasians who target Asians. Can you escape this by suddenly classifying yourself as someone who is NOT monoracial? This improvised self-reclassification might not enable you to avoid being the target of the racist behavior.
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nealtse
Junior Member
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Post by nealtse on May 14, 2010 12:19:46 GMT -5
It's a sticky issue. In the US I think they hypersenstivity is actually detrimental to racial identity. But then again, s*** like this crops up to make it seem justified: www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/arizona-ethnic-studies-cl_n_558731.htmlOutside of the US, there's a casual sense or racism in the sense that, people are far more identified with their culture, and it's sometimes without malice.
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Post by jefe on May 14, 2010 13:02:17 GMT -5
Ha-ha, OK, you people from Brooklyn, Brookline, Fargo, Charleston (WV and SC) - don't bother applying for work as a teacher in Arizona if you have an accent - who cares if your ancestors have been in the USA for 300 years. And black people, no ebonics - you have to talk like Obama (but, alas, you cannot share his beliefs. ) Seriously, there is no problem requiring English competence for teachers of English, but the same standard applies to everyone - many of those Anglo-American white teachers need to spruce up their English as well. Sometimes, yes. But the USA is not alone in its ways. In fact, I am sure China would LOVE to "hannify" (assimilate them into the Han Chinese culture) all the minorities if that could be done. Many places have dealt with assimilate or genocide - if not actual genocide, then at least cultural genocide. Have you simply ignored phenomena such as Australia's *lost* generation? The USA snatched Native american kids decades ago and tried to train them to become white people. That was later condemned. When will people ever learn?
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Post by betahat on May 14, 2010 13:39:59 GMT -5
I enjoy the racist jokes. It is tricky to walk the line though - witness the recent controversy over South Park and the drawings of the Prophet Mohammed (not racism per se but "anti-religionism"). When I examine my own beliefs I'm certainly not exempt from racial stereotyping - trying to be anti-racist and tolerant requires constant vigiliance, not in the least because anti-Caucasianism, especially directed at intolerant, lower-class whites that make easy targets because of their cultural differences from an educated upper middle class Canadian Eurasian, can be just as destructive.
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miss feli
Full Member
here kitty, kitty!
Posts: 315
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Post by miss feli on May 14, 2010 13:50:28 GMT -5
"How much racism can you bear from people around you and society? Are you more tolerant to racism directed at other communities than Whites/Asians/EAs?"
Yikes ... I might get some whiplash from this, but I've grown up around people who are somewhat intolerant to African Americans, especially lately as there's been those wave of attacks on Asian Americans by them. It's hard to deal with, you know it's wrong, but for some reason you are so understanding ... eep.
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Post by Ganbare! on May 14, 2010 14:05:18 GMT -5
How much racism can you bear from people around you and society? Are you more tolerant to racism directed at other communities than Whites/Asians/EAs? Although it's not very moral, I don't mind racism against Caucasians as collectively I think they have earned it however I feel bad when it happens to Asians or Eurasians. How do you feel when Caucasians collectively have earned racist treatment, but when that anti-Caucasian racist treatment is also directed to YOU, as someone who is part-Caucasian? Do you feel that you need to disassociate yourself form the target of that racism ("Hey, man, I may be part white, but I certainly ain't *white*), or do you feel a compulsion to diffuse the racism (Yeah, those white dudes suck, but just because you have white blood in you does not mean you automatically suck. Not all white people suck.). As a Eurasian who may be relocating to Asia, I can almost guarantee that you will experience some anti-white or anti-foreigner sentiment directed towards you -- indeed, you might have even experienced this already in Europe or America. Yes, but as a Eurasian, how do you define "other races"? Maybe all monoracials? ("Mixed people are cool; monoracials SUCK") As a Eurasian, you may be both around Asians who target whites in their racial remarks, as well as around Caucasians who target Asians. Can you escape this by suddenly classifying yourself as someone who is NOT monoracial? This improvised self-reclassification might not enable you to avoid being the target of the racist behavior. I think I did not express myself clearly, rare stereotype humor excepted I do not diffuse racist opinions on any community nor do I reject any ethnic group. I cannot stand gratuitous discrimination that being said I do not feel compelled to defend any other group outside of EAs, it sounds selfish but I believe it's justified considering we are a minority within minorities and that no one will ever defend our name if we don't. Furthermore, I'd rather not spend days and nights educating people on every cuture thus why I leave the heroic feats to each community.
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Post by TeeHee on May 14, 2010 21:47:47 GMT -5
These days, I have very little to no tolerance for racism against any race- I pull no double standards in that regard. It wasn't always that way though. I've dated guys who hated non-Asian minorities such as blacks but liked Asians/EAs, and I used to be ok with hanging around with/dating such types. One of these guys, for example, was a strange neo-Nazi type. He hated black people, but at the same time, said how he couldn't ever be with a white female; his preferences were with Latinas and Asians/EAs. While he admired Asians as the "model minority" and was attracted to Asian/EA females, he looked down on Asian/EA men with the usual stale stereotypes. For example, one time I took him to an Asian New Year Festival, and afterwards, he was saying "I felt like such a giant among such little Asian munchkins." That comment would've had some merit if it weren't for the fact that there were full Asian guys there who were taller than him (he was about 5'10"). Granted, I wasn't holding any sort of height contest, but that was quite some nerve he had. At some point, he even said he was worried at the thought of having a son with partial Asian blood. So basically if we were to have had any kids, it could only be daughters. Even though my last ex was not a neo-Nazi like that one per se, he did exhibit bigoted tendencies, which I didn't notice until later on in our relationship. He too made "jokes" about Asian/EA men such as the Asian penis one for example. He knew well how annoyed I was with that, but didn't care apparently. Anytime I'd call him out on his bigotry and tried to address the issue, he'd just write me off saying something along the lines of "You're just saying that because you're Asian/minority." One time, he had gotten into a heated debate(completely un-related to race) with a friend of ours, who was black. In a private conversation after that, he referred to him using the N-word. When I tried to diffuse the situation and gave the friend the benefit of the doubt , he said something along the lines of "leave, go back and join your N*gger friend". My original mindset was "Well they don't hate Asian/EAs, what do I care?" For all I knew, these guys seemed like decent normal people on the surface level. I thought that if they were willing to be with someone like me, an ethnic minority of Asian/EA descent, there wouldn't be any issues race-wise. So I didn't think to run a "screening process" by addressing such topics in the beginning. I came to realize that even though these guys(and other people like them) didn't dislike Asians in the conventional sense that they did blacks, they still exhibited racist tendencies towards them but in a different way. I broke up with them in large part because they wouldn't stop making such unprovoked remarks. I can find humor in some racial jokes if they're actually funny/have some truth to it, but what these guys were saying, I failed to see any humor with. After my experiences with them, I've resolved to be upfront with/run a "screening process" on any future prospects. I did so with my current bf, which he passed of course. All this said, my tolerance varies more or less between private/personal and public/business matters. I wouldn't date or make friends with someone who exhibited racist tendencies, but on a business level, I also don't make a habit out of arguing with people with whom I may disagree if it's not relevant, unless I'm provoked.
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conorsoccr23
Junior Member
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Post by conorsoccr23 on May 20, 2010 9:28:50 GMT -5
wait so its ok to b racist to white people but not asians r u serious? asian culture is probobly the most racist, discriminatory culture in the world and u cant blame white people for the stuff tht we werent alive to stop tht jus ignorant
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Post by betahat on May 20, 2010 17:49:56 GMT -5
^wait so its ok to b racist to white people but not asians r u serious?
I think a nuanced view does accept that there is something of a double standard - racism against more powerful groups is *SLIGHTLY* less destructive than racism against less powerful groups. That's because of the potential consequences. For example, that means that racism by Asians in Asia - let's say, the Japanese doctrine of racial and cultural superiority during WWII - is more destructive than, say, racism by Korean shopkeepers against blacks in the US, even though they are both wrong.
^ u cant blame white people for the stuff tht we werent alive to stop tht jus ignorant
I'm not in favor of blaming individuals today for misdeeds of the past, but I wouldn't be so quick to write off a collective responsibility for past historical sins. If, because of historical racism, it is more advantageous to be born white than black or yellow or brown in the US, I would say that a white person born today, while not responsible for past sins, has a responsibility to support policies that might redress these disadvantages, including things like affirmative action. This is always a delicate matter, but there are sensible ways to address the historical legacy of institutionalized racism that assigns some collective responsbility and operates at the level of groups rather than individuals. First and foremost that means special protection against negative discrimination, but I think in some times and places it can encompass positive discrimination (affirmative action).
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Post by Ganbare! on May 20, 2010 18:40:07 GMT -5
I disagree, duty of memory for modern era misdeeds is essential. Germans did theirs, they were taught institutional guilt so deeply for the past 60 years, the common man genuinely feels bad about it. Germany is the country the least likely to institutionalize anti-semitism and that's great considering their colossal military potential. The Japanese still deny to this day their implication in WW2, nationalism is resurging in the peninsula, have we not learned anything from History?
Don't f*** around or your offspring may have to pay for it: no matter how individualistic human beings become they still think in terms of groups, not all White Americans were responsible but most Caucasians supported racist laws. Don't be surprised some people feel their descendents should get their fair share of discrimination or at least be remembered what they did to minority groups' ancestors. Let us be clear, I support no racism but I'm not going to defend Caucasians for what they did either!
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Post by betahat on May 21, 2010 0:05:55 GMT -5
Recognition of past misdeeds is obviously the first thing, something Japan and the US and others ought to do. That's not the same thing as collective social responsibility and actions designed to regress that. It's not like Jews in Germany get affirmative action or Jews born today get reparations from the German government - the kinds of things that come up in the US in discussions about past treatment of Natives, Blacks, Asians, etc. Jews do have a special protection from discrimination in Germany - making holocaust denial a crime, which is analgous to hate crime legislation in some countries that makes assault on a minority a worse crime than assault on a middle age white Christian male. Maybe Germany goes a little easier on Israel than France but that's about it for special treatment.
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conorsoccr23
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Post by conorsoccr23 on May 25, 2010 19:09:49 GMT -5
but how can u tell if a white person is helping to contradict these disadvantages ik there r many people like this but r still discriminated by the minorities, its the 21st century i think that deep down every1 has a racist side lik closing ur car window when you see a black person(i try not to do tht) but its not lik at a job interview for a company a employer would discriminate against ur race unless he was federally obligated to hire a minority to make the company seem more diverse that goes against white people
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Post by betahat on May 27, 2010 16:14:06 GMT -5
^but its not lik at a job interview for a company a employer would discriminate against ur race unless he was federally obligated to hire a minority to make the company seem more diverse that goes against white people Not true. If you're applying for a job, it's better to be called Emily or Greg than Lakisha or Jamal. www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.htmlMy general view is that people who receive initial advantages that are really not of their own doing have a duty to try to correct those initial advantages through redistribution and public policy. In my view this should apply primarily to incomes - being born into a rich family is the biggest advantage you can get in life - but secondarily also to race and gender. Ultimately the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action have been white women, not blacks (and especially not black men), so we shouldn't just see it as a racial issue. But it is pretty hard to deny all of the employment discrimination that exists against women and minorities - I can find more evidence if you don't believe me.
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