Are you happy ? / Is society ?

[Ganbare!]

Do you think modern developed societies are happy?

Goods and services have never been as abundant as today but it just feels that because of exacerbated individualism people are not satisfied with their lives.

I might be wrong but I noticed that Asian countries seem to be much more serene and much less disillusioned especially Singapore, Korea and Japan, they all have in common high religious practice, low individualism, high family values.


I used to be very unsatisfied with my life, struggling with people, my identity but not anymore for now at least. I think happiness comes from within, when you are confident and finally at peace with yourself and not from material belongings or the others although they do help in achieving this state.

Are you happy and why ?

[toyomansi]

I have been discussing these things with many non-westerners of different backgrounds, most of the time they are telling me: "People here in Norway don't look happy at all! Even though this country is so rich and has everything available to everyone"

Because here, people are highly individualistic and people believe that it's "every man to himself". And I've observed that what seems to be the most important things of life is just work, earning a lot of money, buying houses, cars and material things and just participating in the rat race. Young people want or is highly encouraged to move out from their parent's house at age 16-18, and they are left to earn their own money and fend for themselves. People get surprised that when I spend holidays at my parent's house, I don't have to pay them anything! And that they are happy to help me with money when I need it. I think many people here have an emtpy hole inside, and they don't know that this way of living isn't what brings real joy and happiness.

In Asia I learned how people can be so joyful and happy, even when they are poor in material things and unsure about future prospects. The most important things to them are family, togetherness, sharing and helping each other. Whenever I'm there, it's as if there is no longer an "I", only a "we". I've tried bringing these values back to Norway, but it's not easy to create togetherness with people who are closed and only focused on themselves. It only works with others who came from non-western countries, and they are always happy to find others who share similar values as them.

Happiness doesn't come from career, money making and material things, even though these things really help make everything more comfortable. But while having all of these things, and a person is still not satisfied, grateful and fulfilled, then the person is not happy. Happiness does come from within. My lifestyle isn't any different from others who are cought up in the rat race, but I don't attach myself too much to my job or my possesions. What's important to me is finding joy and peace in the simple things in life, and enjoying life together with the people I care about.

[jefe]

Money would not be bad.

Not for material possessions mind you, but to escape from being treated like a freak.

[Groink]

^

Honestly, money would just be a barrier between you and people that would treat you like a freak. They'd still talk a ration of s*** behind your back, but pander to you for your money.

Better to know who your enemies are.

[moralhazard]

"Are you happy and why?"
This is an awesome question.

And yeah, I agree with you that happiness does come from within. I was struggling with these thoughts last year and saw this quote by Archbishop Oscar Romero - "Aspire not to have more, but to be more". It encapsulates everything that I was thinking.

I've noticed that some people who are fixated on material objects also treat people like products. For example, if the people they meet aren't a certain 'brand' or mirror the same level of 'investment' in themselves, then back you go on the shelf, not worth the effort. In a way it's sad. They are so fixated on following standards metered out by their peers (eg must live in trendy Suburb 1 rather than Suburb 2) that they forgo great opportunties and experiences. Perhaps too scared of breaking away from the path already marked out for them?

[rob]

I can't speak to society or to generalities..... but as for me:

- I so desperately yearn and try to be happy. I have an immense capacity to be happy, and if given the opportunity to make others happy too (even at my own expense)
- I feel so incredibly lucky to be alive, here, now and to have the capability/facility to do many things
- Like a camel rations water, I can survive on small trickles of happiness over long period of my time. Laughter is an oasis.
- No one person or place has ever made me happy, not in a sustaining way. And no collection of them either comes close to filling life's glass (I wish that were the case). Outside the unconditional love of a child and a soulmate, the only thing that can make me truly happy is me developing myself and amounting to something.
- LOVE. I don't know why I wrote that.

[Ganbare!]

Happiness seems like a sensitive issue. I think that the financial crisis contributed to destabilize the mercantile paradigm that has been the norm for some time now. Sure, the overwhelming majority of people still desire to be richer but not at any cost anymore, personal lifestyle balance became an important matter in work conditions negotiation.

Academics wrote for decades that the fate of religion was to inevitably disappear, however the current resurgence of faith in both the private and public spheres does not go their way at all.

I believe, sorry if I offend anyone that religion is the poor man's philosophy, it gives individuals a sense of purpose in life to bear with the overly complex post-industrial world. Life used to be simple, Colored were generally poor, Whites were wealthy, females stayed home, males went to work, no sexually tensed workforce, fewer multiracial states, people knew their respective place in society, who their parents were, where their national pride laid. People are increasingly disorientated, thus I think unsatisfied and unhappy.

[hapachild]

I think a lot of people go through an identity crisis, but especially Eurasians.

I forgot who said this (it was under the 'You know you're Eurasian when...' thread) but I completely agree with the 'you feel like you live a double life' thing because it really does feel like that at times. I stick out like a sore thumb with my white and asian friends, haha.

[quiapo]

I wonder how "happiness" can be defined. There is a survey floating around that uses a happines index and has found third world countries scoring higher on their scale, despite poverty and uncertainty about the future. On visits to my original country, many have refused to join the Philippine diaspora, as they were not prepared to lose their "connectedness" to group (barkada) and family. Many had tried living overseas in affluent countries and could not cope with the sense of emptiness.

[Magic]

Engaging topic ! Defining hapiness is a difficult task depending on what you take into account, the results can differ greatly. As toyomansi said some people find Norvegians not to be very happy yet they top quality of life rankings. On another note, Norway ranks low in the Happy Planet Index.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index

[FreckleFoot]

Excellent idea for a thread...

Despite not having the fortune of befriending many non-western people, I agree with Toyomansi. The west in general is very much focused on being the most successful individual career- and money-wise and everything is measured by the amount of material items you own. I have not been to Asia, but I do know it is more of a collectivist society. Since the whole is more important than the parts that make it, different qualities are valued and these happen to be qualities that are easier to achieve than individualistic ones. Everyone has the ability to share and help others, but not everyone can be a CEO. So I think unhappy people in the west may be unhappy because they cannot live up to the expectations of society. As a result, they have a lowered self-esteem, lower confidence and other people may also regard them in a negative light. All of this can greatly affect a person's happiness.

I swing between being happy and not being happy. When I am happy it is typically because of spending time with loved ones or having fun with friends. I also love to experiment with my creativity. Or it could be as simple as having the privilege of witnessing a beautiful sunset or catching a glimpse of an animal that wouldn't normally allow itself to be seen.

When I am unhappy, it is usually because I am feeling the pressures of western society to build a career and earn as much money as possible. This includes people I know expecting me to immediately become the manager of a company when no one even wants me for secretarial work. It's not possible. Also, it's not the type of work for me. One can say I could ignore these people, but when they are close to me it's difficult not to pay attention and allow their opinions to get to me. I allow it to affect me too much, but I do not know what to do to make myself more resilient.

[Magic]

I might become happier as time passes by via succeeding in my philosophical quest of truly knowing myself and by reuniting with the people I miss. Based on the ranking it's safe to conclude that happiness does not lie in material prosperity, health or even education but in societies solidarity and warmth toward their own societies.

[palavore]

Feb 18, 2010 16:15:36 GMT -5 FreckleFoot said:

Excellent idea for a thread...

Despite not having the fortune of befriending many non-western people, I agree with Toyomansi. The west in general is very much focused on being the most successful individual career- and money-wise and everything is measured by the amount of material items you own.

There is also cultural dimension to the importance of happiness. I think people in America like to be "happy" or that a constant state of "happy" is healthy because they chase after that natural byproduct of "happy" which is confidence. And confidence in the American psyche is associated with good fortune... though research fails to support this.

Anywho, the sale of anti-depressants in Japan has soared in recent years:

CRAZY LIKE US: THE GLOBALIZATION OF THE AMERICAN PSYCHE

Not even a disease as seemingly straightforward as depression is exempt from a remarkable degree of cultural determination. Japanese people have traditionally considered profound sadness to be a poetic ennobling emotion, not a disease to be banished with the aid of doctors and pills. For this reason Eli Lilly, the makers of Prozac, declined to enter the Japanese market. “Executives in the company believed that the Japanese people wouldn’t want to accept the drug,” observes Watters, “More precisely, they wouldn’t want to accept the disease.” Glaxo SmithKline, the makers of Paxil, did not give up so easily. A “mega-marketing campaign” successfully altered the traditional Japanese view of sadness and depression. By 2009, sales of Paxil in the country had reached $1 billion.

The researchers that Watters lionises correctly note that the importation of western psychiatric process smuggles in cultural assumptions that threaten to upset social balance.

Yeah, I do like this kind of stuff. Trying to understand societies and how they interact contributes to my own kind happiness. The more non-conventional the theory, the happier it makes me when I ponder it.