|
Libya
Feb 23, 2011 5:53:03 GMT -5
Post by davidbleo on Feb 23, 2011 5:53:03 GMT -5
Lately I've followed some of the news and tweets coming out of Libya... so far 1000 have been confirmed and there are rumours authorities handing out weapons to anyone "loyal" to the regime. As events also develop in Bahrain and Yemen... Libya has the most violent clashes between authorities and protesters.
Other news I've read say that many embassies are no longer loyal to Gadhafi...
Two planes and at least a warship have defected to Malta 'cause they refused to bomb civilians...
All these events in North Africa and the Middle East make me think a little bit about the students' protests in 1968... the Tlatelolco Massacre here in Mexico City...
What are your thoughts on all these events and specifically on Libya and the Gadhafi regime???
|
|
|
Libya
Feb 25, 2011 2:54:26 GMT -5
Post by haplotype on Feb 25, 2011 2:54:26 GMT -5
Libya is a tribal confederacy, and Gadhafi exploited the divisions. Tribal identities remain strong, so a Yugoslav-style extended civil war is a likely possibility. If any Western nations intervene, Libyans will quickly rally against "foreign invaders", so the West is likely to just sit out the conflict and issue "condemnations".
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 6, 2011 1:45:06 GMT -5
Post by lonerangerandtonto on Mar 6, 2011 1:45:06 GMT -5
Just imagining hearing some creaking and tumbleweeds blowing past me here on this forum.
I've been following these uprisings on the major news networks.
I blame social networking as the driver for the insurrections not just in Libya but all the other north african and middle eastern states that have recently had revolutions. Facebook, twitter, youtube, blah. Imported ideas (freedom). Wildfire.
Ghaddaffi is an enemy of the west. He seems a dictator. The people can swing to him or go against him. If NATO intervene militarily the masses will swing to Ghadaffi, or something nationalistic. The tribal point is an interesting one. I agree with this.
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 9, 2011 3:08:08 GMT -5
Post by davidbleo on Mar 9, 2011 3:08:08 GMT -5
I've also been following this on the news and on twitter... and well, I feel the tribal factor won't play a significant role here... at least, it hasn't done it so far. Things noe have fallen into stagnation... let's wait for the rebels to gain momentum and once they've dethrone Gadhafi, let's see if Libya can find unity or fall into trabal chaos... I bet and hope for unity...
BTW... freedom is no imported idea nor in Libya nor anywhere... in my opinion.
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 9, 2011 5:01:01 GMT -5
Post by lonerangerandtonto on Mar 9, 2011 5:01:01 GMT -5
Did democratic freedom exist in Libya since 1969? This is what i was impressing.
The imported freedom concept to Libya; maybe the social networking and the freedom of expression of the internet. A US concept e.g. twitter, facebook, youtube. These concepts originated in the USA. Libya is a kind of socialistic-conservative society, yes and Ghadaffi was in power for 40 years.
I would agree an 'existential' freedom is just human, or the concept of freedom as being abstract, is universal. Maybe I am using too fancy words, without being grounded in philosophy
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 10, 2011 8:33:24 GMT -5
Post by lonerangerandtonto on Mar 10, 2011 8:33:24 GMT -5
France have recognised a Libyan rebel group council.
Big move by the French. I think the French are more respected than their Anglo NATO partners. Just their approach. They would get more support from Libya than UK/USA.
Maybe French forces move in at some point?
At the end NATO will squabble amongst themselves and maybe things will be shared out between them.
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 13, 2011 11:07:42 GMT -5
Post by haplotype on Mar 13, 2011 11:07:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 14, 2011 14:14:41 GMT -5
Post by lonerangerandtonto on Mar 14, 2011 14:14:41 GMT -5
I can relate to what the nytimes is saying. Young guys get together, get armed with high powered weopans, then they think their demi-gods, and want to live like them,. Gangstas. Then they'll turn on each other, in step the foreign police forces to bring law and order. Then one of them will be the next ghadaffi, except ghadaffi attacked the west.
I read an interesting article on Libya. The govt there have built a great manmade river (GMR), it has a wiki entry too. The largest water transport project ever built by man. It is subterranean and takes advantage of the watertable in that area of the world. There are rumours that some countries want to control that waterflow, because of a lack or shortage of water.
Saying this I heard a rumour that a Japanese corp made a deal with Australia to buy water from them. Some countries must have an issue with their water supply? Just an idea. Resource wars?
I can't think of anything else about libya at the moment,
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 16, 2011 5:50:38 GMT -5
Post by davidbleo on Mar 16, 2011 5:50:38 GMT -5
Most people protesting in Tiananmen in 1989 were young, as well as the people protesting in eastern Europe just before the fall of the socialist bloc. In Tunisia and Egypt protests were, by the most part, peaceful. In Libya, on the other hand, the escalation of violence was the result of the coercive forces of the Libyan State... protesters had to rise in arms in order to survive. It was not the protesters' choice to turn their movement into some sort of militia, but a "natural" reaction to the state repression.
Gadhafi's forces have now retaken towns and cities from the opposition forces... but even if he retakes "control" of the country the movement against him will continue in clandestinity. In the international arena Gadhafi has now no allies in the Arab League and has lost almost all international suppport. Gadhafi will fall even if he manages to regain the whole nation.
---------------
The basic complaint made by protesters in the Middle East and North Africa is the corruption of the ruling elite... but, IMO, in a deeper sense it is a problem of freedom. In every opressive regime there is a lack of freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of expression and even, to some degree, freedom of thought... this lack of freedom makes the period of socialization (in a psychoanalytic sense) of the people living under such a regime "harder" as the differences between the id and the super-ego are deeper. Many human needs have to be deferred for so long that a lot of people live under a constant distress... so when twitter and facebook enter the scene, these are just tools to share and organize the social distress among the population (especially among young people who have not yet "conciliated" the id with the super-ego when confronted with the reality principle inherent to the society they live in).
In this sense Twitter, Facebook and so on... are just tools, really useful as they act as an uncensored mass media, but they represent no fundamental nor idiological import into the Arab World.
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 16, 2011 7:28:27 GMT -5
Post by haplotype on Mar 16, 2011 7:28:27 GMT -5
Do Libyans want the "free" life of hedonism and rudeness that Westerners tell them they must have? The brutal modernism of Gadhafi? Or fundamentalism that tells them everyone must wear bomb vests? If Libyans are like people elsewhere, then most of them do not want to commit to fanatical lifestyles, whether it is any of the three.
|
|
|
Libya
Mar 16, 2011 9:53:44 GMT -5
Post by lonerangerandtonto on Mar 16, 2011 9:53:44 GMT -5
I respect davidbleo's view, it's like the essence of it all.
I watched Max Keiser, Russia Today, the other week and he was in Egypt interviewing a young educated egyptian guy that was involved in egyptian media. He was quite open and when max got onto the topic that most people go onto the internet for porn, the egyptian said something to the effect that some egyptians watched porn for their kicks, to which Max Keiser looked very embarassed. Check this on RT Max Keiser in egypt. I laughed my head off but was embarassed too; real people.
|
|