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Post by Ave` on Oct 29, 2007 23:30:23 GMT -5
I hope there are some Islamic verses that say we women are going to have Chippendale dancers waiting for us after leading such pious lives. Anything u want Ethel. You want it you got it :]
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Post by Altan on Oct 30, 2007 1:58:47 GMT -5
I don't think anyone can really stop an Islamic Century after the dust settles. Everyday we speak and breathe an Islamic Historian is chronicaling the days events. I was reading one Islamic History Book and it wasn't just of their greatness of their past but also of their past weaknesses. I thought that was interesting that they would find fault truthfully with something associated with Islamic History. But I guess a lesson learned from past mistakes and the data was pretty accurate as far as I saw with whatever data I had before me or etched in my head. Both books were about 1000pgs on Indian type paper for the masses(like Newspapaer) cheap but gets the point across.
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Post by procrastinationdan on Oct 30, 2007 3:03:41 GMT -5
It remains to be shown how destroying or building a coral reef has any effect on people, other than making white environmentalists whine about it. That's true if you only look at the fact that it hasn't been done before and that we can therefore not judge it's precise effects. However depending on the size of the reef, and the number of species reliant on it, it could have a variety of unforeseen consequences. It would be better to carefully judge these consequences rather than just blunder blindly into them. Once species are extinct you cannot regain them. Very good point. True, the world doesnt care what we do to it, extinction is inevitable, but i am pretty sure im correct in saying it would be in our (man) best interests to keep the earth as inhabitable as possible. The world doesnt care, but we sure do! By messing with the environment, we do things that could end up having adverse effects on our ownselves in the long run, and because no one has done it before, we can only hypothesize on what will happen next. By destroying the coral reefs, we would lose the seas biodiversity hubs, and would increase the chances of killing off a keystone species, which in turn would increase the chance of the food chain in the sea being messed up, which would definitely have profound effects on human lives. I dont think it is fair to say the West are getting on their high horses about environmental management. They are speaking from experience, in that the West also went through periods of terrible environmental destruction, and then they realized the ramifications of this, and are thus trying to stop developing countries from making the same mistake. Due to the locations of many developing countries, the same mistakes could be catastrophic. The rainforests in Southeast Asia for instance are some of the most biodiverse areas on the planet, by destroying all that we could be throwing away answers to diseases we have now, and things that havent been discovered yet. This is of course the selfish view, but then it is probably the best way to sell it to someone who doesnt care about the environment from an aesthetic viewpoint. I do think that many developing countries also turn around and say, 'we are only doing what you did, so leave us alone', but the difference is that now we know what will happen, whereas way back when we were ignorant. However, extinction is inevitable and will happen to us, that is the one certainty of life.
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Post by marshmallow on Oct 30, 2007 4:09:07 GMT -5
Lovely an Islamic century. This is great for men (aside from Taliban types). Hey guys if you've got the dough, you can have 4 wives. Plus you can have concubines. Make sure not to have the concubine of your neighbor unless he grants you permission. If you rape a girl make sure there are less than 4 of you in a room. If you go to Iran, you can have a temporary marriage (sounds like fun). Finally don't worry about dying, heaven's a brothel....maybe with 9 year old virgins like Aisha. I hope there are some Islamic verses that say we women are going to have Chippendale dancers waiting for us after leading such pious lives. why should i even bother....... no offence but some of u should read the Quran before u speak "Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes, and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them...." (24:30) "Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace..." (24:33)
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Post by long on Oct 30, 2007 18:28:35 GMT -5
Just wanted to quickly say that haplo's statement, which seems fundamental to his thesis :
Western nations have made a fundamentalist religion out of individualism, sex, and anti-authoritarianism. Asian nations have made a fundamentalist religion out of material advancement at the expense of societal well-being.
Is, in my eyes, a huge over-generalization which I am hesitant to agree with even in spirit. Fundamentalist individualism/ anti-authoritarianism is an oxymoron. Haplo's apparent contempt for environmentalism seems to have a very strange tension with his criticism of Asian capitalist ideals (because they have a degrading effect on society). Are you free-market or not?
Without much thought or conviction: This century will not be the Islamic century, rather it will be the Agnostic/Secular Humanist century.
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Post by jewbird on Oct 30, 2007 19:53:42 GMT -5
They have large families, but that doesn't mean they're going to win. As long as the world's money supply is controlled by Jews, Muslims will continue to be irrelevant. Do Jews truly control the world's money supply? How big is Israel's economy? Where are the Jewish oil wells? Are Jews just technicians who manage money for the Arabs that own it, helping them get wealthier? While the amount of capital Muslims can raise by selling oil to Western nations is great, the capital the Jews can raise by loaning out 10x that amount is greater. And many Jews do own oil in Russia, despite the political pogrom, whereas the oil wells of Saudi Arabia are mostly water now. Secular societies suffer from moral distractions, but the freedom such societies offer allows the good to flourish along with the bad. So yes, I do think they will be successful in the long term, unlike Muslim societies, which are no different than any other emerging market.
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Post by JohnCoolYoungHistory on Oct 30, 2007 23:32:39 GMT -5
Lol at the original post.
I give the human race more credit - we'll be away from oil faster than you know. Iran knows this, hence why they're trying to secure nuclear power... they never owned most of their own oil, selling it to Russia and Britain in the 1900s.
Declining birth rates a negative indicator?
LOL. Tax incentives to have less children may have to do with it.
Ignorant
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Post by long on Oct 31, 2007 0:28:54 GMT -5
Iran knows this, hence why they're trying to secure nuclear power... they never owned most of their own oil, selling it to Russia and Britain in the 1900s. Tax incentives to have less children may have to do with it. - Didn't Mossadegh nationalize Iranian oil in the 50's so that Iran no longer recognizes foreign ownership? - What tax incentives are you referring to? In the states isn't there some tax incentive to have more children?
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Post by ConceptDesign on Nov 2, 2007 6:43:06 GMT -5
It won't need to come to that! As you quite accurately point out, Islamic Societies follow basically backward, anachronistic, medieval models of governance. This combined with the lessons learnt from the 1973 oil crisis means the West will never allow OPEC Islamists to directly dominate them. Now that the Soviet Union is out of the picture, and the former Soviet States themselves are battling Islamist uprisings, I think we'll see a swift military response to any threat posed by Islamist oil producers trying to meddle in our affairs. Most Islamic oil producing nations are weak and corrupt. A US carrier group in the Arabian Gulf would be more than enough force to snuff out any tin-pot Sheik who tries anything on. And there are more than enough people within their states who would relish the chance to rise the position of puppet leader. Diplomacy is the preferred option. However, as the world has learnt, Islamists don't care for such civilities, they speak only one language. The West and the developed East can be quite eloquent in that said same tongue when we are pushed.
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Post by ConceptDesign on Nov 5, 2007 17:23:31 GMT -5
You raise some interesting points, not sure if I agree, but hey, that's the nature of free speech in western secularist societies. Here's and interesting article. Perhaps the Internet needs to be more heavily regulated, perhaps Islamists should be required to register to use it, or have their activities more closely monitored?
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