The Islamic Century

[haplotype]

Who controls the world's oil supply, therefore the world's economy? Muslims.

What is Europe's most active, fastest-growing religion? Islam.

Who has the highest birth rates in the world? Muslims.

While much has been made of the 21st century as the "Asian Century", Asia remains a wasteland of human rights abuses, a spiritually hollow material wealth, declining birth rates, and declining family values. Having no native traditions of charity for the poor, refugee children are sold to fight rings or brothels and have their necks tattooed with ID numbers. Asia is beset with rising crime rates, exacerbated by police corruption and ineffective judicial systems. Asians have remained resistant to adopting more advanced systems of judispredence or ethics from foreign cultures. Does East Asia's rise represent a temporary phenomenon, and will the 21st century prove to be the Islamic Century?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2h7eSo0uTg

[haplotype]

Islamic societies have the benefit of avoiding the mistakes made by modernized Western or Asian societies, which are obsessed with sex and materialism. Western/Asian societies today practice a form of secular fundamentalism, where the media constantly bombards people with sexual imagery. Modern secular societies are characterized by their cultural self-hatred, in which people are "proud" of abandoning their traditions, identities, and morals, defying cultural norms for the sake of it. In secular societies where people who do not practice body piercings, extramarital sex, or take drugs are mocked for being "frigid", where practicing patriotism is equated with "fascism", fewer people have children, and few children are raised properly, can such countries expect to have a sustainable future?

[Emily]

I'm not quite sure if I'm supposed to think you're serious...

haplotype said:

Asians have remained resistant to adopting more advanced systems of judispredence or ethics from foreign cultures.

Because Muslim countries have been more opened to foreign culture?

Besides, I'm not sure I follow your train of thought.

haplotype said:

Islamic societies have the benefit of avoiding the mistakes made by modernized Western or Asian societies, which are obsessed with sex and materialism.

So here you don't want Western culture to infiltrate Muslim countries, yet you condemn Asia's so-called relunctance to allow foreign influence?

If you're focusing on Islamic countries, then aren't you also hinting at the use of Sharia as opposed to the evil secular Western legal system? By no means am I claiming that the Sharia is to be radically avoided, but questionable jurisprudence has been extracted from its application.

[Ave`]

Interesting argument. Im feeling the vibe too. Im not sure about the world. Last summer when I went back to Malaysia a friend told me "At this rate Malaysia will be a very religious country by 21st century despite being secular".

civilization come and goes...

The 20th century was a time of runaway growth in human numbers, consumption, and technology, placing a colossal load on all natural systems, especially earth, air, and water -- the very elements of life. The great question of the twenty-first century is how, or whether, this can go on.
Only by understanding the patterns of progress and disaster that humanity has repeated around the world since the Stone Age can we recognize the experiment's inherent dangers, and, with luck and wisdom, shape its outcome.

[haplotype]

emily said:

Because Muslim countries have been more opened to foreign culture?

Dubai has the world's tallest building. They seem to have adopted Western technology without its obscene baggage.

www.burjdubai.com/

In Qatar, the majority of the nation's population is foreigners; how many Western nations can claim this?

So here you don't want Western culture to infiltrate Muslim countries, yet you condemn Asia's so-called relunctance to allow foreign influence?

Muslim countries have a choice of which influences to adopt or avoid. Asian societies have failed to build the social institutions to deal with the social consequences of modernization, such as its lack of sympathy for the poor, crime, or declining family values. Islam has an existing cultural infrastructure for dealing with these issues. Historically, Islam has been successful in converting Buddhist societies to Islam; Islamic communities continue to grow throughout Southeast Asia and China today. Buddhist societies failed to provide adequate support for their underprivileged, telling them that they are being punished for the sins of a past life so their only hope is to pray and hope to be born wealthy in the next. There are no historical examples of Islamic countries being converted to Buddhism.

If you're focusing on Islamic countries, then aren't you also hinting at the use of Sharia as opposed to the evil secular Western legal system? By no means am I claiming that the Sharia is to be radically avoided, but questionable jurisprudence has been extracted from its application.

Sharia has had varying implementations. The most extreme examples receive the most publicity in the West, but more moderate Islamic governments do exist.

[Emily]

haplotype said:

Dubai has the world's tallest building. They seem to have adopted Western technology without its obscene baggage.

www.burjdubai.com/

In Qatar, the majority of the nation's population is foreigners; how many Western nations can claim this?

I don't see how Qatar, Bahrain, U.A.E can account for the typical Muslim country. Sure, they're full of foreigners that are there to make some quick easy money because it practically rains on them. That's the thing though, they remain foreigners, and markedly so. You can hardly say that the vast majority of the Muslim world is accepting of foreigners with open arms.

haplotype said:

Sharia has had varying implementations. The most extreme examples receive the most publicity in the West, but more moderate Islamic governments do exist.

I never claimed that it was to be avoided either. Reality is that unfortunately people like to misinterpret it and it causes sad results.

Don't get me wrong, I think Islam is a worthy religion. But like any ideology/religion, as a ruling method, it's been used in a pervasive manner. I'm not claiming the superiority of any religion or worldview as a means of society conduct, I simply don't think there is an answer.

[hapalicious]

haplotype said:

Who controls the world's oil supply, therefore the world's economy? Muslims.

What is Europe's most active, fastest-growing religion? Islam.

Who has the highest birth rates in the world? Muslims.

While much has been made of the 21st century as the "Asian Century", Asia remains a wasteland of human rights abuses, a spiritually hollow material wealth, declining birth rates, and declining family values. Having no native traditions of charity for the poor, refugee children are sold to fight rings or brothels and have their necks tattooed with ID numbers. Asia is beset with rising crime rates, exacerbated by police corruption and ineffective judicial systems. Asians have remained resistant to adopting more advanced systems of judispredence or ethics from foreign cultures. Does East Asia's rise represent a temporary phenomenon, and will the 21st century prove to be the Islamic Century?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2h7eSo0uTg

i know this is completely off topic but i remember having checked your website on hapas a while back. though i was amused and despite not agreeing on certain points of view of yours i did see your point and grasped your perspective but...i was wondering...why do you despise asia so much ?
don t tell me you don t. it s not just the website...your posts tend to show that side of you.

as for the topic, eventually, if not already, what you described here will happen in the Maghrib and Middle East as well.

While much has been made of the 21st century as the "Asian Century", Asia remains a wasteland of human rights abuses, a spiritually hollow material wealth, declining birth rates, and declining family values. Having no native traditions of charity for the poor, refugee children are sold to fight rings or brothels and have their necks tattooed with ID numbers. Asia is beset with rising crime rates, exacerbated by police corruption and ineffective judicial systems. Asians have remained resistant to adopting more advanced systems of judispredence or ethics from foreign cultures. Does East Asia's rise represent a temporary phenomenon, and will the 21st century prove to be the Islamic Century?

not to mention, like you said, they have the resources (oil) to control the economy...but besides building the tallest buildings i don t see them making any really lasting contributions that will really empower them in the future.
research(education to the extreme and its application of it) is what really empowers a country. it s the key to evolution. are they spending any money on education? are they coming up with any patents ? they may have the most potential wealth but from what i see, those who made riches there are not spending their money wisely buying gold stools and patenting diamond studded handphones. while they re spending billions on silicone coral reefs to make their artificial island "pretty", the japanese are coming up with ways of reproducing REAL coral reef...saving its endangered existence. so who does the future belong to ?
the pretty silicone or the coral reef repoduction patent ?

also...i m not sure in which direction you re going ?
are you talking about asia the continent versus arabic countries/UAE or the religion...? should we be including indonesia, malaysia, europe, etc...in which case why mention asia ? or just arabian countries ?

[jewbird]

They have large families, but that doesn't mean they're going to win. As long as the world's money supply is controlled by Jews, Muslims will continue to be irrelevant.

And whatever problems contemporary culture brings are not deal-breakers in any sense. If God wants to punish people for their sins, he sure does take his sweet time in doing so. It's something the Jews came to realize long ago, which is why they're so pragmatic today.

[haplotype]

emily said:

I don't see how Qatar, Bahrain, U.A.E can account for the typical Muslim country. Sure, they're full of foreigners that are there to make some quick easy money because it practically rains on them. That's the thing though, they remain foreigners, and markedly so. You can hardly say that the vast majority of the Muslim world is accepting of foreigners with open arms.

Wealthier Muslim countries import plenty of immigrants. Western nations import immigrants that make quick easy money, but do not necessarily welcome them either. Western nations such as Austria, Ireland, or Germany have explicit race-based citizenship laws. In most Western nations, nonwhite immigrants are not welcome.

I never claimed that it was to be avoided either. Reality is that unfortunately people like to misinterpret it and it causes sad results.

Don't get me wrong, I think Islam is a worthy religion. But like any ideology/religion, as a ruling method, it's been used in a pervasive manner. I'm not claiming the superiority of any religion or worldview as a means of society conduct, I simply don't think there is an answer.

Western nations have made a fundamentalist religion out of individualism, sex, and anti-authoritarianism. Asian nations have made a fundamentalist religion out of material advancement at the expense of societal well-being. It remains to be seen if these really are the final answers to the success of a nation.

[haplotype]

hapalicious said:

research(education to the extreme and its application of it) is what really empowers a country. it s the key to evolution. are they spending any money on education?

Wealthier Muslim nations spend plenty of money on education. In Western nations, does free inquiry truly take place, or are those who fail to conform to political correctness expelled from schools? Do Western Universities truly come up with innovations useful for their societies, or are they coming up with ever more justifications for secularist fundamentalism, where everybody must have body piercings, think about sex all the time, and advocate Marxism? Are Western Universities vulnerable to feel-good hoaxes about global warming, demanding that everyone engage in economic backwardness? Are Western "innovations" increasingly about moving society backward?

are they coming up with any patents ?

There is a growing body of thought in Western nations that patents hold back innovation rather than encourage them. Innovations of the future may not have patentable forms either; technology is growing increasingly abstract and conceptual.

they may have the most potential wealth but from what i see, those who made riches there are not spending their money wisely buying gold stools and patenting diamond studded handphones. while they re spending billions on silicone coral reefs to make their artificial island "pretty", the japanese are coming up with ways of reproducing REAL coral reef...saving its endangered existence. so who does the future belong to ?
the pretty silicone or the coral reef repoduction patent ?

It remains to be shown how having more coral reefs benefits a nation. Do Western/Asian nations spend increasing portions of their wealth on useless feel-good "technological accomplishments"?

[haplotype]

sam said:

They have large families, but that doesn't mean they're going to win. As long as the world's money supply is controlled by Jews, Muslims will continue to be irrelevant.

Do Jews truly control the world's money supply? How big is Israel's economy? Where are the Jewish oil wells? Are Jews just technicians who manage money for the Arabs that own it, helping them get wealthier?

And whatever problems contemporary culture brings are not deal-breakers in any sense. If God wants to punish people for their sins, he sure does take his sweet time in doing so. It's something the Jews came to realize long ago, which is why they're so pragmatic today.

Do secular societies suffer from moral handicaps? Will an unethical society be truly successful in the long term?

[haplotype]

hapalicious said:

i know this is completely off topic but i remember having checked your website on hapas a while back. though i was amused and despite not agreeing on certain points of view of yours i did see your point and grasped your perspective but...i was wondering...why do you despise asia so much ?
don t tell me you don t. it s not just the website...your posts tend to show that side of you.

Just because I am half Asian does not mean I have to be a cheerleader for their materialistic, morally depraved societies.

as for the topic, eventually, if not already, what you described here will happen in the Maghrib and Middle East as well.

Just because Europe and East Asia became morally depraved places does not mean that Islamic societies will follow suit.

[hapalicious]

haplotype said:

hapalicious said:

research(education to the extreme and its application of it) is what really empowers a country. it s the key to evolution. are they spending any money on education?

Wealthier Muslim nations spend plenty of money on education. maybe they do...but not in the best of ways. i fail to see how having entirely computerized classrooms is the best way to finance education. what i meant to say is that wealth is being spent on very ostantacious things...be it tallest skycrapers, most diamond studded handphones or education itself. so far...i don t see many lasting advances. not In Western nations, does free inquiry truly take place does it any more in whatever countries you re referring to ?, or are those who fail to conform to political correctness expelled from schools? i don t see where this is leading?are you saying it s not the case in the non western countries you re referring to? what exactly are you talking about? who s getting expelled for not being PC ? i can t think of any example here... Do Western Universities truly come up with innovations useful for their societies at least they re coming up with something , or are they coming up with ever more justifications for secularist fundamentalism, where everybody must have body piercings, think about sex all the time, and advocate Marxism? you re generalizing...i don t approve of the way "sex" sells either but nowadays, any country with a market economy will sell what sells best disregarding ethics, and i don t see how...again...whichever country you re referring to...won t end up doing the same to a certain degree. i m not saying you ll get playmates hoardings at every street corners but where there s money, ethics are bound to be corrupted to some degree in the very least. Are Western Universities vulnerable to feel-good hoaxes about global warming, demanding that everyone engage in economic backwardness? i don t see how caring for the environment is economic backwardness. it actually led to some pretty important discoveries and in any case, oil wells won t last till the end of times so researching more environmentally-friendly options is not backwardness. Are Western "innovations" increasingly about moving society backward? what i said above..




There is a growing body of thought in Western nations that patents hold back innovation rather than encourage them. Innovations of the future may not have patentable forms either; technology is growing increasingly abstract and conceptual. by patent i did not mean proof on a piece of paper but innovations themselves. this makes no sense at all...you know what i mean. what then have they come up with that s an innovation yet doesn t have a patent ? this is the most abstract response you could come up with... conceptual innovations ? ? ? ? ? give me a clue here ...

they may have the most potential wealth but from what i see, those who made riches there are not spending their money wisely buying gold stools and patenting diamond studded handphones. while they re spending billions on silicone coral reefs to make their artificial island "pretty", the japanese are coming up with ways of reproducing REAL coral reef...saving its endangered existence. so who does the future belong to ?
the pretty silicone or the coral reef repoduction patent ?

It remains to be shown how having more coral reefs benefits a nation. and it remains to be shown how making silicone coral reef benefits anyone ! actually, we already know the answer. it was a parallel to draw a conclusion from not a claim that we need more coral reefs ! what i was pointing out is that the UAE comes up with something entirely artificial that s no use while japan comes up with research/discoveries that might benefit the nation Do Western/Asian nations spend increasing portions of their wealth on useless feel-good "technological accomplishments"? yes they do. but so do people who became wealthy in dubai do... actually, in a more lavish way.

[hapalicious]

oops.... it wasn t supposed to come out like this....sorry, too lazy to edit.

[haplotype]

hapalicious said:

maybe they do...but not in the best of ways. i fail to see how having entirely computerized classrooms is the best way to finance education.

Where are these "entirely computerized classrooms" in Islamic countries?

what i meant to say is that wealth is being spent on very ostantacious things...be it tallest skycrapers, most diamond studded handphones

Do you care to cite sources that say Islamic countries buy the most diamond-studded headphones?

or education itself.

Why is it that you started arguing that Islamic countries don't spend money on education, but now say that spending money on education is "ostentatious"?

so far...i don t see many lasting advances.

Do Western nations produce lasting advances, or are advances today just a fleeting advantage? e.g. after spending billions of dollars on developing blu-ray discs, do they offer a lasting advantage, or will they be subsumed by better USB drives?

i don t see how caring for the environment is economic backwardness.

If new housing cannot be built because of land use restrictions, gas prices become more expensive because of arbitrary "carbon emission taxes", is it economic progress? The result is increased homelessness, higher consumer prices, lowered standards of living.

and it remains to be shown how making silicone coral reef benefits anyone ! actually, we already know the answer. it was a parallel to draw a conclusion from not a claim that we need more coral reefs ! what i was pointing out is that the UAE comes up with something entirely artificial that s no use while japan comes up with research/discoveries that might benefit the nation

You seem to be hung up on the "silicone coral reef" example, but do you care to cite a source for this? My research shows that Dubai is not using silicone; "the reef will be constructed using geo-synthetic containers filled with sand or stones and sunk to form a horseshoe shape on the seabed. "

www.ead.ae/en/?T=4&ID=390

Furthermore, I would like to see proof that building coral beds benefits the economy of Japan, as opposed to creating more shipping hazards.