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1421
Nov 6, 2007 5:59:15 GMT -5
Post by Phil on Nov 6, 2007 5:59:15 GMT -5
Just read the book 1421. Theres probably already a thread about this somewhere anyway. It would seem that Chinese people traversed the world before europeans and left colonies everywhere they went and making lots of mixed babies. Native groups in the amazon and other parts of the americas have been found to have chinese DNA. And there are plenty of cultural similarities and some linguistic links that the authors makes referance to. PRETTY COOL ! Heres the website for the authors research and theasis and tings. www.1421.tv
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1421
Nov 6, 2007 8:34:05 GMT -5
Post by helles on Nov 6, 2007 8:34:05 GMT -5
i'm mid-way reading it now.. its a tought but interesting read.
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1421
Nov 6, 2007 10:33:44 GMT -5
Post by juancarlos on Nov 6, 2007 10:33:44 GMT -5
"... and making lots of mixed babies." Didn't the Euros do the same thing?
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1421
Nov 6, 2007 16:12:56 GMT -5
Post by haplotype on Nov 6, 2007 16:12:56 GMT -5
It sounds about as credible as Marco Polo's claims of visiting China and becoming a governor.
How did they judge who has "Chinese DNA"? Despite what the media claims, and what some biotech companies claim, there are no reliable tests to tell apart specific ethnic groups. If they do have Chinese DNA, did the haplotypes really come from Zheng He, or from modern Chinese immigrants?
Case in point: some people claim that Eskimos are related to Japanese because some of them have Japanese-sounding names, or have Japanese-like DNA. However, Japanese did not have surnames like "Tanaka" or "Yamas***a" until the late 19th century. It is more likely the result of interbreeding with 20th century Japanese fishermen.
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1421
Nov 6, 2007 22:27:47 GMT -5
Post by Phil on Nov 6, 2007 22:27:47 GMT -5
^Read the book for yourself before you dismiss it. He makes a pretty strong argument. I only posted the parts which were more relevant to this "Eurasian" forum. But along with the DNA, cultural and Linguistic evidance the author presents plenty of other supporting finds such as ship wrecks, artifacts and local legends among the peoples who supposedly came in contact with the chinese fleets.
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1421
Nov 6, 2007 23:41:29 GMT -5
Post by SecretAsianMan on Nov 6, 2007 23:41:29 GMT -5
In my game of Europa Universalis, Zheng He directed his fleet to the shores of North America. By the 1700s, the natives were speaking Mandarin. Concerning the book, is it relatively new? Asians reached Madagascar around 200-500AD. The idea of Chinese in the Americas sounds plausible. It's a few years old. I saw the TV documentary on PBS here in the U.S. a while ago. Discussion of whether Zheng He led expeditions beyond the Indian Ocean is nothing new (people have been speculating on this for a few decades, AFAIK), but there really isn't any hard evidence to support it. Watch the documentary. It features numerous scholars who point out this fact. And besides, even if Zheng He (or a lost ship from his fleet) had actually reached the Americas, what exactly was the lasting impact of this naval escapade (other than affecting a small segment of the foreign gene pool)?
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1421
Nov 8, 2007 3:46:54 GMT -5
Post by Phil on Nov 8, 2007 3:46:54 GMT -5
^ First of all its really F'n cool! and second of all if people just say 'ah ok big woop nothing really happend" without investigation, than one turely know that there was not lasting impact.
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1421
Nov 8, 2007 4:33:30 GMT -5
Post by Altan on Nov 8, 2007 4:33:30 GMT -5
When I was in Australia...they were talking about the Dingo. And Malay/Polynesian people leaving the dingo or bringing the dingo to Australia. If the Malay/Polynesian people went to Madagascar and New Zealand and perhaps populated the New World with one wave of "Indians." Than anything can be possible. For this is before European knowledge and writing and exploration.
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1421
Nov 11, 2007 15:06:43 GMT -5
Post by honeyviper on Nov 11, 2007 15:06:43 GMT -5
I'd believe it to be more than possible. There are stories on the NW coast of having contact with Chinese traders (as well as Japanese and Ainu fisherman) well before European contact. Even Polynesian chicken bones were found in South America. I think a lot of people are trained into thinking that "the beginnings of global exploration" occurred with European travels, but I'd say that there's plenty of evidence to suggest that a lot of other people were traveling too.
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1421
Nov 11, 2007 21:37:50 GMT -5
Post by SecretAsianMan on Nov 11, 2007 21:37:50 GMT -5
^ First of all its really F'n cool! To a fellow history geek like me, it is interesting too. Given that this allegedly took place not too long before European explorers reached the Americas (we are talking about the 15th century, after all...), we know that China did not have major trading outposts, let alone colonies, in the Americas for a significant amount of time after this particular event, right? China's rulers subsequently did their best to erase any record of it afterwards, to boot. To me, this makes all of this more of a possible missing "footnote" to history than anything else. Could be cool trivia nonetheless, if it turns out to be supported by the evidence.
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1421
Nov 11, 2007 21:51:18 GMT -5
Post by Ave` on Nov 11, 2007 21:51:18 GMT -5
Lets not forget Zheng He is a muslim and muslims has been claimed to have been sailing the world long before the Europeans.
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Szymon Von Zalyn
Full Member
50% Polish of Prussian descent, 25% Italian, 25% kalmyk, but 100% English.
Posts: 367
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1421
Nov 18, 2007 7:56:58 GMT -5
Post by Szymon Von Zalyn on Nov 18, 2007 7:56:58 GMT -5
Just read the book 1421. Theres probably already a thread about this somewhere anyway. It would seem that Chinese people traversed the world before europeans and left colonies everywhere they went and making lots of mixed babies. Native groups in the amazon and other parts of the americas have been found to have chinese DNA. And there are plenty of cultural similarities and some linguistic links that the authors makes referance to. PRETTY COOL ! Heres the website for the authors research and theasis and tings. www.1421.tvI read this book over three years ago and I still find it just as compelling now. I do not agree with all the subjects but I find that his questions and conclusions are at least well thought out, unlike other "experts" who seem to base their ideas on god knows what. I will read any book that challenges the the "europe first" argument of world discovery but I try to keep an open mind as at the end of the day, more solid evidence is required before any idea can be taken seriously. The wrecks of chinese super-junks off Australia is an example of this just as genetic evidence is too. I think that Gavin Menzies is on the write track!
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