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Post by Aiko on Jun 12, 2006 10:45:13 GMT -5
That's because few Americans migrate to other countries. America is a country based on immigrants.
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nao
New Member
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Post by nao on Jun 12, 2006 16:08:13 GMT -5
When you go to a decent ethnic restaurant e.g. Chinese, you expect to see it packed with Chinese workers - I have never seen anything else. The mindset people have is that they need to see Chinese workers in a Chinese restaurant or it's not half-decent - usually true, too true...i also like to make sure it's full of Chinese, or whoever....who wants to pay to eat fake ethnic food? it pisses me off no end.... on a side note, it doesn't bother me in the least that the Chinese pretend to be japs when they run jap restaurants...i just don't go... peace i concur with miaim , here in Paris 95% of japanese restaurants are runned by chineses people . I don't say that food on restaurant should be made ONLY by the ethnicity of the restaurant's so called speciality ( for exemple my mother who is french cooks wonderfully japanese dishes ) or that chineses are bad cooker , not at all ( NOT AT ALL ) , but in that case on those restaurants, like maiam, i found that it is kind a fraud, because it does not even taste like it should, and worst, french people think that japanese cuisine is only sushi and yakitori , and they think that it is great , if only they knew how bad those restaurants are :/ it annoys me :/
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Post by ConceptDesign on Jun 14, 2006 8:12:15 GMT -5
If that is true, why isn't Maccas, KFC and Burger King staffed by Americans? Here in New York, the above ARE staffed by Americans, mostly teens or older part-timers. Otherwise, Farmer and Aiko have pretty much said it all. There's also lots of ethnic restaurants owned by persons of the same ethnicity as the food served that are just horrible. But hey, people have their perceptions and expectations, don't they. but they are hardly 'ethnic' when in the usa...
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Post by elle on Jun 16, 2006 10:03:44 GMT -5
^i dont think it's a problem at all...the chinese people making crap japanese food is epidemic in melbourne and it used to piss me off...but once you find out the places that work for you obviously it isn't an issue...i dont think it's racist if you owned a japanese restaurant and employed japanese chefs and waitresses because they clearly will know more about the culture and food than a non-jap-they are 'culturally experienced' i guess.
<tangent> ..this reminds me of that episode in seinfeld when elaine thinks all teh waitresses were chosen on the basis of being busty and it turns out they were the proprieters daughters for some reason...funny..funny stuff...
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Post by yongfook on Jun 17, 2006 0:27:02 GMT -5
Off topic, but since we are now getting onto that dead horse topic of "Chinese people shouldn't run Japanese restaurants", I have to say, business is business. There are Chinese people opening Japanese restaurants because there is a demand for it and no one else is providing it - the rate at which Japanese people emigrate is miniscule compared to the Chinese.
There is nothing - absolutely nothing - stopping a Japanese entrepreneur or simply another Chinese family who can cook better Japanese food from opening another restaurant to compete and provide a better service, but if the market doesn't require it (how many people really understand what good Japanese food is?) then there is no point in investing the time and money.
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Post by elle on Jun 17, 2006 6:27:33 GMT -5
^you are right. last night i saw something referred to as seaweed from a takeaway joint purported to sell thai/chinese and malaysian food...it actually *looked* like seaweed...but it was fried cabbage apparently....i think in the UK people are much less finicky about food...did i even have to mention that? no...
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Post by yongfook on Jun 17, 2006 7:07:43 GMT -5
^you are right. last night i saw something referred to as seaweed from a takeaway joint purported to sell thai/chinese and malaysian food...it actually *looked* like seaweed...but it was fried cabbage apparently....i think in the UK people are much less finicky about food...did i even have to mention that? no... are you in the UK right now or something? Yes, the UK has had "cabbage" seaweed in Chinese takeaway menus for as long as I can remember. It's supply / demand - people want to eat that stuff. This kind of imaginative cultural re-interpretation of food happens all over the place. And Asian countries are no angels either - come to Japan for mayonnaise pizza and I think you'll find that deep fried cabbage being passed off as seaweed isn't that bad after all. As for people in the UK being less finicky about food?? Can we say generalisation? Google the world's top restaurants, count how many are in the UK, and have a rethink of that statement. The UK produces some of the world's finest chefs, gourmands and restaurants - I hardly think that all stems from a culture of people who don't give a crap about food.
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Post by londongirl on Jun 17, 2006 9:14:16 GMT -5
Yongfook speaks the truth.
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Post by elle on Jun 17, 2006 12:28:53 GMT -5
^^yes, i am aware there are many fine restaurants....i was speaking more on generalistic 'what most people accept etc' terms...i never saw that cabbage stuff before....that is all...
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Post by angel on Jun 17, 2006 12:56:43 GMT -5
UK might have some of the best restaurants but they're in or around London and expensive. I'd say that there are a handful of decent restaurants between the two cities I know inside out, Manchester and Liverpool. Generally restaurants in the UK serve absolutely awful food - there's a Wetherspoons on every high street selling pre-packaged crap warmed up in a microwave - and seeing as these restaurants are always busy I'd argue that actually there IS a culture in this country of people not giving a crap about their food. Even when people cook for themselves, they use the disgusting, well dodgy supermarket meat.
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Post by yongfook on Jun 17, 2006 13:15:16 GMT -5
UK might have some of the best restaurants but they're in or around London and expensive. I'd say that there are a handful of decent restaurants between the two cities I know inside out, Manchester and Liverpool. Generally restaurants in the UK serve absolutely awful food - there's a Wetherspoons on every high street selling pre-packaged crap warmed up in a microwave Wetherspoons is a chain pub, not a bastion of fine cuisine. It is like McDonalds for over 18s. For the love of god don't go there and expect anything more than reheated, processed rubbish. I can go to the equivalent in any city in the world and expect crap food. I'm not sure what compels you ladies to make assumptions on a culture based on 1) take-away food, and 2) generic pub grub, but I assure you that there are higher quality alternatives out there and you don't really have to look very hard. You might start by going to eat at a place that doesn't have 20 other branches in the same city.
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Post by elle on Jun 17, 2006 13:32:31 GMT -5
not to sound too lame, but i was half joking...but actually i think in general there is just more crap out here-and wayyy more people do rely on s*** take-out than anything i have seen before...but on the balance, perhaps it is equivalent to the amount of "better" food here...so i guess you are right in sum total...i also accept the fact i am totally not in a place to make an educated judgement about the food of a nation..but i was qualifying the generally acknowledged fact of the s***ty food in the UK (ie. what jamie oliver was going on about) with my limited experiences...which are, without a doubt, limited...
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Post by EA Observer on Jun 17, 2006 14:16:17 GMT -5
Yes, I have to be honest and admit that I would be very reluctant and hesitant to order a pizza from the Chinese Pizza Hut.
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nao
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by nao on Jun 18, 2006 2:16:35 GMT -5
@yongfook : First, i never said/implied that chinese people shouldn't run japanese restaurant. Then we are talking about QUALITY here . i like to eat , i love good cooking , and as being part japanese i take pleasure in making other people/friends discover and enjoy japanese "cuisine" ( which is also true for my other french part , when i have friends from abroad coming into France , and i ll take them to a good meal) . And how should i make my friends taste japanese food ( besides cooking myself or inviting them at my mom's place? ) : Restaurants \o/ YEAY !! I don't care if the cooker is nigerian , russian , chinese ... if the food is good and taste like it should, i don't give a damn. But in this case , i am saying that we have too much of bad restaurants which are pretending selling "authentic/ethnic" food and using skin color to make it more real ...come on this is lame. Judging the book by the cover ? great ! I should go on and be okay with it because this market law from supply / demand ? because this is business and no one else does open and run restaurants ? Immigrations ratio? Well , i don't it is not because that it exists that we should give up on highier standard for the others, it is selfish. Don't you like to share, for exemple, good music to others ? i guess you do. This is the same here , then how could you share music if all you have available is low grade pop music ? We are all here a mix of several ethnicities, and i think that as such we are good at crossing cultural bridges and in good position to "enlight" ( ... don't think that it is the proper word , but i ll go with it anyway ^^ ) others , because i know that what goes around comes around and , someday other will do the same with me , and then i'll discover new stuff/ food/book/music... , and i ll go to bed a little less dumbier each days that happens thanks to them. Oh and here some reactions to some of your comments : "how many people really understand what good Japanese food is?" that is the point , making them understand ! "It's supply / demand - people want to eat that stuff." They don't even KNOW that there are other things ^^ As for "cultural re-interpretation of food" , this part is true and i find it great when the outcome IS good. ( mayonnaise pizza , or camenbert for breakfast ... NOT good exemple but then we have Tempura , you all know about it , japanese ? naaaaaah portugese dish re-interpreated by japanese ^^ ) Finally regarding chain restaurant , take Maïsen for exemple ( tonkatsu/fried dishes ) , you are in japan you should know about them , they are great and still they are franchised , so quality is possible even in chain restaurants. I hope that post make myself clearer on the subject. ( if not i am sorry and i ll take for escuse the few hours sleep of last night ,the fact that i didn't eat this morning, i am starving and this post is about food , and of course my terrible english ... ) Regards Nao
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Post by yongfook on Jun 18, 2006 2:56:09 GMT -5
that is the point , making them understand ! ever stop to think that the reason dishes get corrupted / adapted in the first place is because in their original form, they simply do not suit the palate of other countries? You can't make people understand if they do not want to understand. Many foreigners have trouble with Japanese food when they come here and I know that what I now consider to be good Japanese food is not the kind of thing any of my friends back home could eat comfortably, or would choose to eat in a city like London or Paris. They don't even KNOW that there are other things ^^ And how is that the fault of the restaurant? The onus is not on the restaurant to provide an education on what is good and what is bad, the restaurant is in the business to sell a service that people want. If people want to find out that there are alternatives to what they currently eat, they will - they can hit the internet, buy a magazine, ask a Japanese friend, go to another part of town. People have free will - you aren't being forced into these bad restaurants and if you are stupid enough to think that they are your ONLY option, then that's your fault, not the restaurant's. but then we have Tempura , you all know about it , japanese ? naaaaaah portugese dish re-interpreated by japanese ^^ ) I don't see your point here, other than that Japan has copied a lot of its staple foods from other countries. Tempura, miso, sushi were all being consumed in other countries long before Japan adopted them and "made them Japanese". Finally regarding chain restaurant , take Maïsen for exemple ( tonkatsu/fried dishes ) , you are in japan you should know about them , they are great and still they are franchised , so quality is possible even in chain restaurants. A horrible example. How exactly can you f**k up a deep-fried dish? It's like the baked beans on toast of Japan. I hate those tonkatsu senmon ten with a passion - why would I pay through the nose to eat something that is no better for me than a McDonald's meal? Japan has abused the deep fried cutlet for too long - I don't even look on that food as being Japanese anymore. To me, Japanese food is seasonal, fresh, healthy, minimum prep and beautiful. f**k all that deep fried stuff. But that's my opinion - I don't care if you think deep fried stuff is the very definition of washoku - it's not my place to educate you, and it's not the restaurant's place to educate you; you eat what you bloody well like.
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