ethnosociology

[j3aN62]

Don't know for sure if this word exists. I think it does in french. This is for continuation of the thread in the entertainment forum 'la haine'. 'la haine' means the hate in french. I'm not that fond of posting in a thread with that name, so if the deep discussion could go on in this one thread, better. ;D

[londongirl]

Ok, lets start this thing. For anyone who hasn't seen the thread la haine, we were discussing the film of that name, and then we started to discuss how arabs, (in comparison to asians) are treated in France. I personally have found that when I am in France, I am given shifty looks by whites and sometimes blacks. I am moroccan jewish and japanese, but I look like a light skinned south asian or a north african. (It may not help that on all these occasions I was with at least 5 of my moroccan cousins. ) Btw, this was in and around Marseille.

[j3aN62]

I'm sure there are tons of social science theses done on the topic of north African immigration in France and Europe.

Anybody willing to do academic research ? ;D

Now, one thing that occurs to me : there are a lot of north Africans in France right now. Last figures were about six millions, maybe it's more like 8 millions. That is huge, especially in urban area where they can reach almost a majority, if not, then quite a large group. Therefore at this moment they don't get as much pressure. You don't mess up with blacks in a black neighborhood, etc.

Now, for Asians except a few chinatown like places, they are a minority. And also the fact they used to be physically a bit smaller (not really true any longer), all that add some pressure.

Now, concerning Marseille, londongirl might get surprised but I heard people with jewish origin from north Africa joined the front national, because they are too upset with the arabs.
Well, it was already five or ten years ago. Nowadays I don't know. So yes, nothing is simple.

In Algeria, during colonization, I think the jews got the french citizenship, but not the arabs. Don't know about Marocco, it's still a very different story with the khalifa.

[londongirl]

Wow, thats interesting. I thought the front national were for an all white france?

[j3aN62]

I understand you're about 18 londongirl, but yes things are not that simple. There are also blacks and north africans in the front national. In fact a few years ago, there were a lot of north african immigrants who had become french who asked for reducing the immigration rate.

Now I admit there are a lot of not so bright old french who just want all non white out of the country. They think they are nationalist but as I posted earlier, they are white nationalists, not nationalists. They want division and even if they don't realize it they are messing up.

Also lots of people of jewish origin coming from north Africa are really caucasian looking. Well depends. True for Algeria, less so for tunisia and marocco maybe. Don't know.

[londongirl]

Yeah, I am a young un. I will turn 17 on July 17th.
There is a lot of variation in the phenotypes of north africans, even within my mothers family this is so. There are probably just as many white looking muslim north africans as jewish ones, look at Zinedine Zidane for example. One of his brothers could also pass for a european. I think both jews and muslims from the Magreb have the same racial mix, but any mixed race group can obviously produce white looking people.

[j3aN62]

Something worth mentionning also is that from what I've heard, there are two basic ethnic/cultural groups in north Africa : arabs, and berbers (not sure the english word). Berberes are considered more european looking. And in Marocco I've heard that the main population is berbere.

Well there have been also the subtropical african type mixing.

[londongirl]

Yeah, I know ziziou is algerian berber. (Btw berber is the word in english). The berbers are still racially mixed, but they have less black blood and more eurasian gene flow, (I think).

[j3aN62]

I feel like talking about the word definition. Ethnosociology is the 'fusion?' of two words ethnology and sociology. So it must be something like sociological studies, but topic being the ethnic/cultural groups, rather than general sociology.

I remember several years ago I found something about 'ethnopsychology'. Same kind of definition. It was some study about the sub tropical african immigrants to europe, and some psychological study of the effect compared to their original countries. Of course nothing about EAs, by far. Anyway psychology theories are very oriented. I prefer much more sociology and the math approach. Rather than myths.

[londongirl]

Totally in agreement with you, jean 62. They could do a study on the EA communities in Hong Kong and Singapore, I guess. What I always thought would be interesting is a comparative study on mestizo communities in Latin America and how they perceive race.

[Altan]

Definately everyone has an ethnosociology. Depends on your background but many groups are differen't. Very differen't for each other from what I can see. For example if your Eurasian who also see things differently from other groups pertaining to yourself. You see similarities and differences. I saw an Old World Italian today and I new pretty much knew what he wanted.

[j3aN62]

The EA communities are very rare. I read once that the one in Hanoi, Vietnam was destroyed at the beginning of the war in 46. I still don't know if it's true, cause I can't find anything on that topic.

I saw the website of the singapore EA house, several years ago. But then the site was not available after a while. Had a chance to see some pics, dinner time, etc.

[Altan]

I think that some people look at EA's in a post or present European/Western Colonial sense. I think that you have to look at EA's not just in a European colonial sence but also as an Asian colonial sence in the past. In regards to Asian migrations West. Why has this been overlooked or not looked at? Is it just so long ago before the ascendancy of Europe as the top power in the world? I met some Bulgarians who were very fair who had more Asian features than myself. Guess you can say that I'm more Asian because my Mum was Asian but they looked more Asian than me. Basically they looked Slav; but looked more Asian than myself who looked more classically Caucasian compared to them. I thought it was interesting.

[j3aN62]

I know lots of people in Eastern/Central Europe show Asian facial features. The Germans also, I've noticed that too.

[londongirl]

Well, I guess Gengis Khan and his troops had a lot of fun in Eastern Europe back in the day.