Mistaken for Latino?

[jefe]

jpeezy said:

I, for one, would NEVER go to a foreign country and expect others to speak my native language, no matter what it may be. If I visited France, I would not assume that the local population should cater to me by speaking english even though Britain is just a quick chunnel ride away.

You hit the point. Spanish has never a foreign language in the USA at least for the past 460 years. In fact, it is de facto co-official in New Mexico. Should people expect all persons to speak Spanish in New Mexico as it is used in government documents and has been spoken there since the 16th century?

When I go to the USA, I never expect everyone to speak English, I don't expect everyone to speak Spanish, I don't expect everyone to speak French or Chinese or Tagalog, even though these are the top 5 languages spoken in the USA, and those are exactly the 5 languages that I learned to communicate at least on a basic level because those are currently the most widely spoken languages in the USA.

May I ask you, pray tell, how should people approach a place like Singapore or Malaysia? The typical approach is to start out in one language, and hopefully within seconds identify a common language. I sometimes guess and try English or Mandarin or Cantonese. Sometimes people speak excellent English, but some speak Malay -- or understand English, but reply in Malay. I am not offended -- usually understand most of what they said and reply in a mixed Malay / English sentence and they are not offended. I have had people talk to me in Hokkien, and although I understood the question, I don't know how to answer them back properly, so I ask them if they can speak English, Mandarin or Cantonese.

I see the USA in a similar way as Singapore or Malaysia, only even more complicated. I remember waiting for a bus on Roosevelt Island in New York and I asked the lady at the bus stop what the fare was. She could not speak English, so I asked her if she spoke Spanish, which she did. So she told me the fare in Spanish. the interchange simply switched from English to Spanish.

Sometimes people come up and asked "Habla Espanol?" and I reply in Spanish that I do not speak Spanish very well, but can I try to help them. Sometimes they continue, sometimes they move on. I have had encounters with strangers in Tagalog or Mandarin in the USA and it is not an issue.

Even when I was in Brazil, I spoke little Portuguese, but I could still talk to various people in English, French, Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese or Cantonese -- People are cool with it.

The USA was never a strictly English speaking country and English is not the official language of the USA -- no more than Spanish or any other language. All of them can be used in court, and if there are enough speakers of certain languages in an area, it is required to print voting materials and other citizenship materials in that language.

It is just as wrong to expect people to speak English in the USA as to speak Spanish or any other language. Why expect these things? I don't.

But of course, economically and politically, English is more valuable than Spanish or the other langugages in the USA. There are in general more economic and social opportunities / rewards for proficiency in English in the USA. However, conversely, there are economic and political rewards for Spanish proficiency as well, and many companies and individuals cannot ignore this and do seek these advantages also.

And yes, German was almost made the national language of the USA during the immediate post-independence period. and German language education was prevalent in the USA up until WWI. WWI and WWII helped to cause German to lose its prestige in the USA, and this hastened descendants of German speakers to forgo using it.

[thekrez]

^ Interesting.

In England I can tell you it is expected to speak English, and proper English at that, in the homeland of English culture.

In countries like Australia and America there is not the reverence for the English language like there is here.

You see it everywhere from simple crossword puzzles that everyone does on the Tube, to esoteric words that even a well read individual would have trouble deciphering.

[Ajeno]

^I would agree with you krez but with those accents there i can barely make out what you guys are saying half the time.


Jefe - People here (including myself) feel english is the official language.IMO its the universal language and everyone should speak it.

And as a spanish speaker i sometimes have trouble speaking to people from different parts of latin america..I recall a conversation with a mexican a woman about bus/train schedules and she used words like "Ahorita" which to her means "Right now" and to me means "Later on".I use "La gua-gua" for bus and she didnt understand it at first.But yeah those are only minor problems.

[jefe]

jimmy said:

In England I can tell you it is expected to speak English, and proper English at that, in the homeland of English culture.

America is not the heartland of English culture, but has certainly picked up spreading Anglo culture across the globe where England left off.

In countries like Australia and America there is not the reverence for the English language like there is here.

I beg to differ from this. Where in the world did you assume that there is no reference for English in America and Australia compared to England?

Long after England is gone or buried, America will still be reading and performing Shakespeare and spreading traditional English culture in ways that are already forsaken in England itself. And the USA has maintained 17th century English to a considerably higher degree than England. If you want to hear Shakespeare that more closely resembles the original, you might be behooved to check out Cincinnatti or Peoria rather than Avon.

You see it everywhere from simple crossword puzzles that everyone does on the Tube, to esoteric words that even a well read individual would have trouble deciphering.

USA is just as much into this as England, I am sure. Recognizing Spanish, Chinese, German or Tagalog as popular alternate languages in the society does not at all relegate English into a less recognized or revered category.

In fact, I see the reverse in England -- more disregard for the other elements of society. Canada and Australia are much better at this.

[jefe]

curlytop said:

IF I meet a foreigner at a bus stop who doesn't speak English, then we'll speak Spanish, French, or finger-pointing languages.

Why do you assume the non-English speaker is a foreigner. When I run into a non-English speaker in the USA, esp. at a bus stop, I do not assume that they are foreigners. In fact, I strongly suspect that the lady I mentioned above was not a foreigner.

Yes, the US doesn't have an official language but it's the known common language. It shouldn't puzzle a foreigner which language to learn if visiting the US. The person should learn English, plain and simple. But common sense is if that person ONLY wants to visit Miami and New York City, then yes, that person can just speak Spanish if they don't speak English.

Interestingly, however, it is not just Miami, New YOrk and LA, but increasingly everywhere.

Indeed, New York City has the most ethnic Chinese of any city outside Asia. When I was living there, I was using Mandarin on almost a daily basis, despite not having Mandarin speaking colleagues nor cousins (relatives in NY).
I worked in a hospital, where 1/3 of the nursing staff spoke Tagalog and 1/2 the patients spoke spanish. I think it would be valuable to learn both, but not be castigated for not knowing either perfectly.

Common sense. IF I go to Zurich I should brush up on some German. If I go to Geneva, brush up on French. Lugano, Italian. It's just common sense and doesn't need to be analyzed according to which charters and court proceedings were done in such and such language or whatever document from 1730.

I have not been to Switz. But I suspect that people in Zurich would not scream at you if you explain that you cannot speak German well, but you can speak, say French, Italian and English. So why should it be a sin to say, go to New Orleans, explain that your English is not that fluent, but you can speak Spanish and French. There is probably a 1/3 chance that the person you are speaking with can speak back with you.

[TeeHee]

jefe said:

curlytop said:

IF I meet a foreigner at a bus stop who doesn't speak English, then we'll speak Spanish, French, or finger-pointing languages.

Why do you assume the non-English speaker is a foreigner. When I run into a non-English speaker in the USA, esp. at a bus stop, I do not assume that they are foreigners. In fact, I strongly suspect that the lady I mentioned above was not a foreigner.

hmm, if i'm not mistaken, i think seraphina was referring to that above-mentioned foreigner in the hypothetical sense(IF she were to meet a non-english speaker who happened to be a foreigner). and not much so automatically assuming the non-english speaker to be a foreigner just because they don't speak english. seraphina, feel free to correct me if i misinterpreted your statement.

and even though the USA as a whole doesn't have an official language, many individual states(arizona, california, florida included) HAVE adopted english as their official language.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

phoenix.about.com/b/a/257362.htm

www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-11-16-english-language_x.htm

www.proenglish.org/states/california.htm

[EA Observer]

teehee said:

jefe said:

and even though the USA as a whole doesn't have an official language, many individual states(arizona, california, florida included) HAVE adopted english as their official language.

Pretty pathetic that a country which prides itself as the world's most powerful nation independent from England couldn't even come up with or even adopt its own unique language different from English. But, then, how much intellectual creativity or originality can we really expect from the uneducated descendents of English peasants and sharecroppers, right?

[juancarlos]

eaobserver said:

teehee said:

jefe said:

and even though the USA as a whole doesn't have an official language, many individual states(arizona, california, florida included) HAVE adopted english as their official language.

Pretty pathetic that a country which prides itself as the world's most powerful nation independent from England couldn't even come up with or even adopt its own unique language different from English. But, then, how much intellectual creativity or originality can we really expect from the uneducated descendents of English peasants and sharecroppers, right?

I suppose you are also calling "pathetic" Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Latin Americans, Mexicans, etc. for not coming up with their own languages.

[EA Observer]

juancarlos said:

eaobserver said:

teehee said:

Pretty pathetic that a country which prides itself as the world's most powerful nation independent from England couldn't even come up with or even adopt its own unique language different from English. But, then, how much intellectual creativity or originality can we really expect from the uneducated descendents of English peasants and sharecroppers, right?

I suppose you are also calling "pathetic" Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Latin Americans, Mexicans, etc. for not coming up with their own languages.

Hey, if shoe fits, why not? However, none of these are like the arrogant U.S.

[jpeezy]

The overwhelming majority of American televison channels and news broadcasts are also in English, with the occassional Spanish channel here and there.

[Ajeno]

curlytop said:

I"ve been mistaken because I have a ghetto b**ty

Lots of woman these days have a "ghetto-booty" though lol.

[ausitalapino]

Yes i've been mistaken for a latino, and countless other nationalities and backgrounds.

What is even more surprising is the amount of people straight of the bat has picked out my italian-filo background - quite freaky ey???

Whats funny is when I meet an italian who see me at first say i look filo/asian, but the next time I see them they say i look more italian. Same with a filo or other asian person, they see me as an italian off the bat, then after say that they pick out my filo look. Moreso with italians though. Then you have the one's mainly italians though who never believed i was half filo. This could be due to the way i present myself - I dress more like an italian-australian apparently, my body shape is more italian'ed , I use more of the australian italian slang when i speak apparently, I eat mainly italian foods. I turned out this way probably because I grew up in the eastern suburbs of adelaide (italian area), school was practically 90% italian background, and lived closer to my italian family.

[Julz 33]

I get mistaken for Hispanic...but lately especially at work I have been mistaken for Italian, or even Portuguese...

Some people guess that I am Filipino, but they know that I am not fully so. I don't get mistaken for Chinese although I am 1/4 and my last name is such...Nor do I get mistaken for Irish or Scottish which I am also a 1/4 of...

[attilathehun513]

It depends on what you mean by a 'Latino'; it can be cultural or appearance-wise. Many African descedent people from Latin America are also socially considered Latino although they hardly look African at all. Some Zambos are considered Latino, too. Surprisingly, some Mediterreanean people are also considered Latino although they don't even speak a Latin language. I am definitely not Latino both by looks or linguistics.

[elpresto]

I was once steered into the Spanish-language line at the DMV without realizing it. I guess starting off my initial inquiry with, "Excuse me" sounded like a foreign language to the workers.

And regarding the the idea of speaking Spanish, sometimes it can come back to bite you.

I used to work for an airline that flies to Mexico. We had a passenger who was not making herself understood in English. As the check-in cut-off was rapidly approaching, one of the bilingual agents (who happens to be Mexican) spoke to her in Spanish. Well, you'd think she'd spat in her face! Next thing you know, the agent is being accused of being racist against Mexicans and the passenger made a huge scene going so far as to complain to the station manager and corporate office.

Goes to show that sometimes you just can't win.