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Post by LaFace on Dec 1, 2008 7:50:14 GMT -5
^Some people like to classify stances as black and white - either for or against, precluding any grey areas of shade.
Some outsiders (or extremists within the actual religion) look at Catholicism and say that the religion is 100% against anything even remotely associated with homosexuality because of having such a stance, even if it might not necessarily be true.
My $0.02
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Post by juancarlos on Dec 1, 2008 8:04:10 GMT -5
Ethel,
The Philippines is 85% Roman Catholic. Consequently, whatever the Vatican's stance on gay relationships that are consummated (it is sinful) holds sway for the majority of Filipinos. Therefore, Roman Catholicism is significant only because it is the predominant religion in the country; as obviously, it is not the only religion that does not approve of gay relationships.
As an aside, the reason why the Philippines has a high population growth rate too is because the government refuses to advocate artificial contraception in alignment with the Catholic Church. Divorce is not legal either.
JC
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Post by Emily on Dec 1, 2008 8:08:28 GMT -5
Funny. Just last night, I was discussing with one of my friends from my Filipino dance troupe. We think one of the male dancers is gay. Our other friend, who you would think is more open to this (born and raised in Canada, mid-20's) could not even think of the possibility. She didn't want to. She IS a very devout Catholic, whereas my friend and I aren't.
Ethel, I agree that the Roman Catholic technically are supposed to be more tolerant. When you read it as it was intended to be and not what it has become. The end result is that you have many people who were raised Roman Catholic and continue to identify as such who are intolerant. Not saying that all are, of course. But often enough, people will justify this intolerance by their religion. I think the Roman Catholic church just gets more publicity as being intolerant, because of its sheer number.
Generally speaking, I don't know how the Filipino population feels about gay people. I've noticed that here in the West, or in the Philippines, people love to joke about baklas. They use the term very light-heartedly, without any obvious disdain. There is a girl in my Filipino community who is gay. Sure, there was chismis when she came out, but nothing ever mean. Now, how her parents reacted to that in the privacy of their home, I don't know.
I don't know if there's a way of knowing really how Filipino people feel as they can easily put a different face in public. Maybe they're liberal enough to joke about gay people (in a non-derogatory way/playful) but we can't go into every family who happens to have a gay member. It remains a question mark, to me.
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Post by juancarlos on Dec 1, 2008 8:33:49 GMT -5
The term "bakla" can carry derogatory connotations. Straight friends do use it against each other for teasing and not really mean anything at all. If you say it about a guy on a serious note, it means that he's gay, weak, effeminate or all of the above.
The way Filipinos communicate also goes way beyond words. It's about context and probing beyond the surface. Yes, things may have looked on the outside to be totally fine when a Filipino comes out to their family; but within it may be a totally different story.
As an example, I was at a Thanksgiving dinner at my aunt's. She told one of her in-law relatives who happens to be lesbian something like, "I do hope you get married someday ... to a MAN." Then, everybody around her laughed. No, it wasn't said as a light-hearted comment.
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Post by Emily on Dec 1, 2008 8:44:01 GMT -5
... I know what bakla means. And how it's used.
From the way I've read family and other people in the community, it seemed like people were not offended by gay people, like I said, it's almost a laughing matter. Like, "Look at this hairdresser. He's so bakla. Teehee." Nothing hostile.
They just won't accept it when it's too close to home. I guess it's the same for many people.
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Post by juancarlos on Dec 1, 2008 9:03:34 GMT -5
I don't know about you ... but making fun of someone because they may be gay is in fact hostile and is harassment. Make that a daily occurrence if you happen to be gay in the Philippines and it can be absolutely humiliating!
Btw, my explanation for "bakla" was not for you. It's for others who may read this thread and not know what it means.
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quiapo
Junior Member
Posts: 188
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Post by quiapo on Dec 1, 2008 15:37:13 GMT -5
"Acceptance" is a vague term, and perhaps should be defined by the degree of closeness allowable. I do not know if there is any country that "accepts" homosexuality totally; there are fringe homophobes everywhere. But if one speaks of subgroups within a country, then I would say that there are subgroups within the Philippines that are comfortable with homosexuals, to the point that they would be welcome at all events, even intimate gatherings such as Christmas. I can only speak from personal experience; when you belong to large extended families then there are homosexuals within your primary group that you grew up with and continue to interact at all levels. I know that for my cousins, the acceptance extends to their partners, who are also welcome, as the cousins are welcome. It would be difficult to stay "in the closet" in some sections of Philippine society, as secrets seem impossible to keep where there is such close interaction.
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Post by helles on Dec 2, 2008 2:17:22 GMT -5
We reckon my female cousin is gay. She is kinda butch and in her 30's never having really heard of her dating, but she does have a very close female friend for years.
Of course its unlikely that she will come out to us, or for the family to acknowledge it if she did. so its just ignored/accepted really and they've stopped asking when she is going to get married etc.
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Post by Paddy on Dec 2, 2008 9:37:15 GMT -5
My cousin, Julian, was disowned by his father (my Malaysian mother's big bro) when he became Julia.
I've never met Julia(n) - no one knows if he had the operation, but he apparently looks the part! He's 50+ now and did loads of drugs as a youngster. Suffers from schizophrenia. Quite a sad story, so I hear. There's a few similar tragedies on the Chinese side of my family...drugs, triads etc.
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quiapo
Junior Member
Posts: 188
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Post by quiapo on Dec 2, 2008 14:29:55 GMT -5
Kyu-ree - you have brought up an interesting core issue - the alienation from one or both parents. This is something I have not thought about as both my parents are EA.,( and we all speak the same languages). I wonder how many feel a big gulf betweeen themselves and one or both parents . As a parent I sometimes feel a slight sadness that my children do not speak my languages -( though they both attempted to learn), nor share in our history and culture, living away from the old country. However I do feel that as a family we are as close as any other family.
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Post by Paddy on Dec 2, 2008 14:46:48 GMT -5
Kyu-ree - you have brought up an interesting core issue - the alienation from one or both parents. This is something I have not thought about as both my parents are EA.,( and we all speak the same languages). I think this is common problem among EA kids whose parent's have not considered in depth the consequences of their mixed race/culture relationship on their children. Without first hand experience themselves, it must be nigh impossible for parents to anticipate the cultural dislocation of their EA children. It's simply not enough to say 'you are what you are' and 'we love you regardless'. Though that's a good start! There should be at least some level of culture immersion and reconciliation of the parent's cultural disparities (not to mention that of the local culture).
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quiapo
Junior Member
Posts: 188
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Post by quiapo on Dec 2, 2008 20:07:15 GMT -5
Kyu -ree - I must be doing the wrong thing, I just followed on from your earlier comment, as if in a conversation, when you mentioned about your father. I am not so sure of the etiquette of these posts, so it is good you correct me. I am sure I'll get the hang of it eventually.
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quiapo
Junior Member
Posts: 188
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Post by quiapo on Dec 2, 2008 20:16:54 GMT -5
My post was not aimed specifically about you, but I wondered whether in general, coming from an EA family made generational differences more pronounced.
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Post by Paddy on Dec 3, 2008 16:31:47 GMT -5
I read about this story when it came out.
I don't understand how this pregnancy can work if 'Thomas' remains a man. If there is too much testosterone floating about in his body, and the female reproductive hormones aren't provided/produced at the right time, then the foetus will not develop normally.
In other words, Thomas will have to revert to being a woman for a while.
Any gender specialists about?
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quiapo
Junior Member
Posts: 188
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Post by quiapo on Dec 17, 2008 15:57:12 GMT -5
As I understand it, trans sexuals maintain themselves through regular doses of hormones, and there is reversion to the original type if the hormone doses are omitted.
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