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Post by avax on Dec 6, 2008 13:27:01 GMT -5
Can someone help me clarify this up. I was in a discussion and there was a bit of a debate where the ring should be placed, finger measurements etc, practicality, or not have it at all.
If no ring, how would you share your vows with your partner (if at all). I've seen rings on necklaces but my neck is unavailable (already have a small gold chain from a loved one) and I avoid jewellery as it somehow irritates the ink/skin on my chest if the chain is long especially if it's not real gold. Anything that goes on my neck has clothing separating skin and chain.
Of course there may be no such display of material things. Just wondering for those out there who would/have. Would you/do you keep wearing these things or eventually remove them for practicality's sake? Any ideas?
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Post by straylight on Dec 6, 2008 13:57:40 GMT -5
maybe a ring finger tattoo, if they were OK with it too. that's if no ring though -- i wouldn't have a problem with a ring personally.
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Post by betahat on Dec 6, 2008 16:34:36 GMT -5
Personally I don't like wearing jewellery but I do have a 14K gold wedding band, passed on from my deceased grandfather, that I wear on the ring finger of my left hand (which is the standard for men - I'm not sure if it would be different for left-handed people). I usually wear the ring when I leave the house but sometimes I forget. My ring is a bit loose and probably needs to be sized down a bit (which is much easier than sizing a ring up). I don't find it uncomfortable or inconvenient and I'm getting more used to it every day, though I do play with it quite a bit because I'm a pretty fidgety person (and because it's kind of loose). Incidentally, I only agreed to wear the ring on the condition that if we have any male children they are spared a certain mutilation that is a long-running jewish custom. I figure they'll thank me later.
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Post by avax on Dec 6, 2008 17:41:46 GMT -5
Re: finger tattoo. That's some serious commitment... I'm assuming you meant mutual tattoos, Stray? Hats was just a joke... though I'm not opposed to it. It'd be mad cool to have something like this: "honey, you make me feel fuzzy like carwash." To my knowledge, rings are more elaborate in terms of design. A band is just a plain gold (or alternative metal) band. Typically a woman would wear a ring, a man would wear a band. I wasn't sure if the engagement ring should go on the third left hand, or the fourth left or the fourth right.
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Post by straylight on Dec 6, 2008 23:46:39 GMT -5
@stray: I just saw some celebrity who had an engagement ring tatooed, guess what they broke up now she's wearing two rings over the tatoo so the tatoo can't be seen... Hah.. I must be in a positive mood, because that didn't even register to me... the idea that marriage might not even last
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Post by betahat on Dec 7, 2008 3:51:10 GMT -5
A ring is supposed to feature "setting" that shows off the central stone(s). A typical engagement ring is a diamond set in gold or platinum. A wedding band is the one that you exchange with each other at the wedding. These are typically simpler, often plain medal, but it is not unusual to have wedding bands with lots of gemstones too. A lot of wedding bands these days feature diamonds or sapphires and rubies that are "built in" to the band - they don't "stick out" the way the diamond in an engagement ring sticks out. Many brides these days pick a wedding band to match the engagement ring, the idea being that you would want to wear both on occasion and they stack together on the same finger. During the ceremony brides often wear their engagement ring on the right hand and then switch over to the left, which is where it is typically worn later in the West. However, Wikipedia tells me that it does vary, especially in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia where they seem to like wearing the ring on their right hand: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_fingerIn terms of sizing up, keep in mind that there is usually a half size difference between the same finger on the left and right hand (I forget which way) which means it isn't always possible to swap hands. As for wedding hats, I had me one of those per Jewish tradition. I'll try to post some pics in the next few days. I think Chinese wedding ceremonies sometimes use hats too.
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Post by avax on Dec 7, 2008 12:29:14 GMT -5
Yes, please do, betahat. I'm curious. It seems that your Jewish family is a bit flexible with customs when you were explaining about swapping ring for circumcision if you had a son? Were you tongue-in-cheek or was that true?
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Post by Paddy on Dec 10, 2008 12:12:35 GMT -5
Yes, please do, betahat. I'm curious. It seems that your Jewish family is a bit flexible with customs when you were explaining about swapping ring for circumcision if you had a son? Were you tongue-in-cheek or was that true? betahat, why do you object to male mutilation? It seems like a silly question when phrased like that. My birthday suit was unaltered, so I'm curious why you struck your deal. I recently had a similar discussion as this, regarding wedding jewelry. I've never worn a ring before and imagine the prospect uncomfortable/unpleasant. Of course I might get used to it. I have a pendant that I used to wear. Its a beautiful thing, but I always felt a little self-conscious wearing it - regardless of whether it was hidden from view or not. I play a lot of sports and I once lost it on the field of play. Took hours to find it. As result, I never wear it now. Do many men wear their wedding rings on chains (as opposed to shackles)?
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Post by betahat on Dec 11, 2008 21:09:39 GMT -5
I posted pictures of my wedding on the pics thread. You can see my wedding hat, or Kippah (also called a Yarmulke frequently), which belonged to my beloveds father. It had some nice shiny stuff stitched in but probably could be purchased for ten dollars at a Judaica store.
I just think circumcision is a barbaric custom. I'm fine with other people doing it - I don't think it's a great evil worth fighting over, compared to say, female genital mutilation - but I would never tattoo a small child or brand or scar it any other way intentionally. Hopefully we'll have girls so it won't be an issue. I figure if my kid does get serious about their Jewish identity they can have it done later when their older- VOLUNTARILY. Unlike, say, a piercing or even a tattoo, circumcisions are a bit hard to reverse. Obviously my attitude on this subject is somewhat influenced by being uncircumcised myself - I'm sure if I was circumcised, I would figure it's totally natural to get some Rabbi (or doctor, though if you're really jewish you have a bris and you don't have a doctor do it) physically alter my young infant's genitalia to look more like mine and conform to God's will. Circumcision might have even made sense in a desert society with limited hygiene (though they could not have foreseen that being circumcised reduces the risk of HIV transmission from unprotected sex substantially) but in today's day and age? No thanks.
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Post by buff on Dec 11, 2008 21:23:42 GMT -5
My godson was circumcised a few hours after birth, there's no pain and struggle. I was there right after the procedure was done. It was natural, like nothing at all and it's not mutilation. It will save him the fear and pain of going through with it during pre-teens. It also gives him the benefit of having clean "end" - like not having a sc*umbag to store discharges right. Circumcision is not exclusive to Jewish customs. It's a common practice amongst Catholics/Christians (particularly when parents are both westernized Catholics/Christians)
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Post by betahat on Dec 11, 2008 21:36:36 GMT -5
"It will save him the fear and pain of going through with it during pre-teens" The other thing that might save him from that is if he decided not to do it when he was old enough to make that decision... But hey, I know people have strong feelings on this. Like I said, just explaining my POV - it's not like I want to take away anyone's right to circumcision. We can debate the hygienic and sexual benefits of being circumcised or not, but it's not a debate I feel particularly interested in having because in the end it's a deeply personal decision rooted in tradition - no one really approaches it from an unbiased scientific viewpoint.
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Post by SecretAsianMan on Dec 12, 2008 0:00:06 GMT -5
<snip> Circumcision is not exclusive to Jewish customs. True. Of course, it is a long-standing custom in the Philippines... That's not quite correct, unless we are talking about some of the so-called old Oriental Churches. In Europe and Latin America, it is *not* a common practice at all. In the U.S., on the other hand, the vast majority have undergone circumcision, regardless of religious affiliation (e.g., for American males born in the mid 1970s, which is when I was born, something like over 90% are circumcised).
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quiapo
Junior Member
Posts: 188
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Post by quiapo on Dec 12, 2008 3:18:01 GMT -5
I do not know hew things are these days in the Philippines, but it was very much a rite of passage in the Phiippines, at around puberty. One elected to do it at a time of one's choosing, but it became a sort of bravado to be among the frist in your crowd to undergo it. Some close friends would elect to be circumcised togather and the bonds formed would endure a lifetime. In my youth, one could elect to have a traditional circumcision, often carried out by the local barber, or a surgical one. Barbaric? Perhaps, but inescapable, as it was so much a part of the culture, though some parents tried to spare their choldren the ordeal, by circumcising the children around birth.
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Post by buff on Dec 12, 2008 5:58:33 GMT -5
<snip> Circumcision is not exclusive to Jewish customs. True. Of course, it is a long-standing custom in the Philippines... That's not quite correct, unless we are talking about some of the so-called old Oriental Churches. In Europe and Latin America, it is *not* a common practice at all. In the U.S., on the other hand, the vast majority have undergone circumcision, regardless of religious affiliation (e.g., for American males born in the mid 1970s, which is when I was born, something like over 90% are circumcised). Circumcision has to be decided on my both parents. If one of the parents do not believe on it, you do a stat, I bet one would shudder how many EAs carry excess baggage
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quiapo
Junior Member
Posts: 188
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Post by quiapo on Dec 12, 2008 8:06:28 GMT -5
It is interesting but among my EA network only one, a cousin, did not undergo the process, and that was because he went to school in Spain. All EAs that I know followed the local custom, which predates Hispanic arrival.
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