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Post by cjsdad on Jan 6, 2009 17:12:21 GMT -5
1. Thou SHALT NOT believe all thou art told. 2. Thou SHALT seek knowledge and truth constantly. 3. Thou SHALT educate thy fellow man in the Laws of Science. 4. Thou SHALT NOT forget the atrocities committed in the name of god. 5. Thou SHALT leave valuable contributions for future generations. 6. Thou SHALT live in peace with thy fellow man. 7. Thou SHALT live this one life thou hast to its fullest. 8. Thou SHALT follow a Personal Code of Ethics. 9. Thou SHALT maintain a strict separation between Church and State. 10. Thou SHALT support those who follow these commandments.
Not mine, stolen from the Ethical Atheist, but very solid.
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Post by i move the stars for no one on Jan 7, 2009 0:32:33 GMT -5
@ Cel-interesting.the version of the Wiccan Rede i learned was signifigantly shorter-'an it harm none,love,and do what thou wilt.' Truly?i've only met one asatrurar.She's a Tyrian. my own personal moral code is a blend of my personal definition of right and wrong with a bit of religious and cultural mores thrown in.i find a lot of value in Taoism,more than other religions,but i really couldn't pin myself down religiously.though on paper,i'm a good Catholic since i work for a Catholic school.
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 7, 2009 1:38:26 GMT -5
OMG, I can't believe native religions in Europe has survived this long!!! ;D Very solid indeed, thanks for sharing. Nice, it sounds similar to Tengriism, we have 3 worlds, middleworld, upperworld, and underworld. In the middleworld we were live, our goal was to reach harmony with the land, nature, and people. It's rather Animist though, Tengriist believe animals have souls, I believe that too if we as humans have souls. "Be like water eh?" No fixed moral system? That's very interesting. It's starting to seem that Taoism/Tengriism follows a similar philosophy, though Taoism was practiced in a more civilised environment, where Tengriism was practiced in a more natural environment.
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 7, 2009 5:06:11 GMT -5
Hmmm, might explain why there was always a good relationship between Taoism and Tengriism, Chingghis Khaan himself also consulted a Taoist priest, asking about the secrets of immortality. However, he was disappointed that there was no such thing, and the Taoist priest instead suggested sexual abstinence to prolong life. Heh but being a horny beast Chingghis Khaan couldn't accept that, ending up with 1/3 of world's population carrying his Y DNA.
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Shock
Full Member
Posts: 261
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Post by Shock on Jan 7, 2009 7:41:11 GMT -5
Truly?i've only met one asatrurar.She's a Tyrian. What is a tyrian? OMG, I can't believe native religions in Europe has survived this long!!! ;D Neither i, not long time ago. I started to believe in asatru, when i discovered the love for ancient europe.
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 7, 2009 10:56:19 GMT -5
You mean immortality? Haha
Heh well he loved women, he always was a feminist, and was actually easily very swayed by women. In the Yosa, the Mongol code of ethics, he wrote that a man should always listen to a woman, and marrying a more mature and wiser woman is desirable. So to disregard his wives' demands of him through sexual abstinence was simply not his way lol!
Aye, I have a love of native cultures and religions of Europe as well pre-Roman. There is a lot of harmony, morality, tolerance and humanity in such. Attila the Hun even adopted many beliefs and principles of the Germanic, Scythian, Slavic and Gothic tribes under his command. And I love this:
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Post by i move the stars for no one on Jan 7, 2009 11:10:43 GMT -5
an asatrurar who's chosen Tyr as her patron god.
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Post by Phil on Jan 7, 2009 12:19:40 GMT -5
That Anchient belief system is cool. I was actually talking abuot this with some friends here in gErmany. And they said that Thorsten is actually a derivitive of Thor. I never thought of that. Cool that these names have survived. My friend said that he would name his kid Thor but he was worried that people might take it as some Nazi thing , with him being German. Nazis looked to old germanic mytholgy for inspiration. Its sad cause they really made everyone in germany quite self conscious.
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Shock
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Post by Shock on Jan 7, 2009 12:53:27 GMT -5
Pagan symbols are everywhere. Most of western holiday as christmas or carnival derive from pagan holidays. Days' namese are pagan too. Thursday = Thor's day, Wednesday = Wodan/Odin's day, Friday = Frey's day and so on.
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Post by catgirl on Jan 7, 2009 13:02:58 GMT -5
That Anchient belief system is cool. I was actually talking abuot this with some friends here in gErmany. And they said that Thorsten is actually a derivitive of Thor. I never thought of that. Cool that these names have survived. My friend said that he would name his kid Thor but he was worried that people might take it as some Nazi thing , with him being German. Nazis looked to old germanic mytholgy for inspiration. Its sad cause they really made everyone in germany quite self conscious. OMG, that name sounds VERY Norwegian. Is it also German? Thor or Tor is a very common name in Norway. No one considers it Nazi there Alot of Norwegian names come from Norrøn Mythologi, but I find them to be very masculine, even girls names...
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 8, 2009 2:43:21 GMT -5
That Anchient belief system is cool. I was actually talking abuot this with some friends here in gErmany. And they said that Thorsten is actually a derivitive of Thor. I never thought of that. Cool that these names have survived. My friend said that he would name his kid Thor but he was worried that people might take it as some Nazi thing , with him being German. Nazis looked to old germanic mytholgy for inspiration. Its sad cause they really made everyone in germany quite self conscious. Hitler didn't want his people to remain Christian and show the fruits of their past Roman occupation any longer, that's why he entered into paganism. He had a lot of visions though some he carried them out completely the wrong way. He wanted his people to feel proud but to him the only way was to enforce racial ideology.
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 8, 2009 5:25:54 GMT -5
Yes he really gave European paganism a bad name, but he gave a lot of things a bad name, not just the German people, the Swastika symbol as well as pagan beliefs. There was a Kalmyk Buddhist temple with a Swastika symbol once and after WW2, Stalin blew it up with a missile. Even though the Swastika had nothing to do with Hitler.
The truth is however, European racialism still continues and Hitler isn't solely to blame. You can't exactly go "Oh it's just because of one man, but he's dead", because it's definitely not the work of one man. From what I've studied ancient European culture is so completely different from the Europe that we know now. They only became imperialist after being converted into "humanity" (in Roman terms) by the Roman Catholics and subjected themselves to the politics of their occupiers. It all started from there. Christianity was the uniting force of Europe demonising everything that wasn't their own before race replaced the system, which effectively like its predecessor continue to demonise everything that isn't their own. Hitler, is just a product of all this mess and more.
As for traditional Nordic culture yes you are right, there is nothing Nazi about it, nothing anti-Christian about it, or even white. In other words -> it is a tolerant culture and religion. Tolerant cultures and religions however tend to be subject to intolerant ones unfortunately. "Barbarians" in the end and "barbaric" cultures to me tend to be more civilised then "civilised" cultures hence I support the revival of European paganism.
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 8, 2009 7:46:04 GMT -5
When I mentioned the "They" as in who was the Imperialist, I wasn't talking about Rome, but the European powers themselves after conversion, not Roman. I'm talking crusades, reconquista, drang nach osten, inquisitions, etc. Of course Europa was colonised by the Romans before the acceptance of Christianity. But both played their parts in what was to come. Following any other way of life either then Roman or Christian, was considered primitive, barbaric, inferior, worthy to be invaded. Btw there was no Turkey at that time, only 'Asia Minor' or 'Anatolia', Turks only arrived in Anatolia in force during the Oghuz migration from central-Asia during the medieval era. Also, Constantine himself was DEFINITELY not Bulgarian, Bulgars themselves were originally from former Turkic stock. He was Roman from his father's side and Greek from his mother's. Now I'm not saying Christianity itself as a faith has anything to do with imperialism, but as a religion corrupted by politics most definitely; crusades/colonisation/inquisitions etc. It became a political tool to demonise Europe's enemies before race was invented. Europe can simply not survive if it loses a uniting system. Of course Christians fought amongst themselves but when there was a Muslim or infidel, they sure put their quarrels beside to evict "demons" from European soil. The Muslims did manage to penetrate quite deep into Christian territory until Charlemagne. As for Christian infighting yes it was Catholic VS Orthodox as well followed by Catholic VS Protestant. But it was always Christian VS Islam, Pagans, "Heretics". The fact remains that intolerance is the cultural trait of Europeans since medieval times. You think all the efforts of Americans attempting to combat racist and religious intolerance can effectively combat something that has already sunk in so deep into the very culture of European people? Not to mention the only accepted sources available for racial science are the very ones used during the colonial era to justify the occupation, genocide, ethnocide, and enslavement of non-European people. Yet at the same time any research done on non-European soil by African and Asian scholars are deemed as biased and nationalist. Good freaking God the hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. I've pretty much abandoned my slavic blood after studying what the hell we've become. I now consider that part of me Tatar because I will not side myself with such intolerant cultures and it is definitely contrary to my morality to live in harmony with the world. In the case of Christianity today, this is what happens when you walk in: You walk in there and ask them how to bring understanding and end tension between your Shamanist beliefs and those of Christianity. They say this: "Jesus was not tolerant, so we won't be" "Liberalism causes damage to Christianity by allowing false religions" "You are asking us to be tolerant of religions that send people to hell?" "Jesus said that he is the way the truth and the light, all other religious are from the devil and false" "We can love the person but hate the religion" Thanks to my gf being Christian, I've managed to debate with them on a Christian level I say: "Intolerance is contrary to the teachings that God is Love, love isn't intolerant" They say: "The bible declares that in the end times there will be false prophets" Then they stare at me to point the finger, and then proceed to end the discussion and kick me out I say: "By what right do you have to point the finger when Jesus preached not to judge lest you be judged" They say: "I don't judge the person, I judge the religion." ^ That's no different justification then from racialism. I say: "And why do you persist on believing your religion is superior to all other religions and that only your path is the right one?" They say: "Because Jesus is not a prophet, he is the son of the living God" Now my gf is Christian, she follows her own path however. Christians like her aren't very widespread because very few Christians fail to understand the message behind the bible. My gf has her own outreach ministry in which she preaches everything I agree with, never intolerance, never materialism, the message is pure love. She doesn't even ask for offerings unlike 95% of churches out there, yet ironicly one rich dude who attended her service insisted on giving her a check of $1000 just to build her church ne way! The HUGE majority of Christians however, are not tolerant, this is a fact. They believe in those things posted, and will not ever dare to even learn about the ways of Shamanism before they judge! My gf believes it's because their faith is weak, so they are afraid to question, afraid to learn. Other Christians I've met agreed that yes, 'faith is weak'. So yes, I'm fanatically against intolerance of any kind, and I will support ANY faith that preaches tolerance, harmony, and respect. But that's just me, I'm a nutjob myself trying to take on the entire world. But rather that, then be a vegetable watching humanity screw up itself even more.
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 8, 2009 8:45:33 GMT -5
Heh sorry I got carried away, but insane religions aren't just in the past, it's also in today's world. Read above about Christianity for instance, hence I support paganism. I guess I got a little worked up about people refering to European paganism to Hitler ties when paganism has nothing to do with his philosophy. Same ignorance when Stalin blew up the Swastika on a Kalmyk Buddhist temple.
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Post by Subuatai on Jan 8, 2009 9:00:29 GMT -5
Heh my gf is Christian, her philosophy and moral code in life, I would even support her preaching it back home. I would support her teaching my kids that too. The Naimans were Nestorians also, and we've always had an affinity with Christianity. Her moral code however, is rather simplistic, as on the book of John it wrote "God is Love", and throughout the bible what Jesus did was out of love. Thus, she goes back to Corinthians and implements the Christian understanding of love. Which I guess I've come to respect as well If its not out of love, its not out of God, that's the morality she uses in her daily life. Kinda seduced me too with who she is
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