did you ever reject your eurasian identity?

[Subuatai]

Indo-Aryans were Iranics, and the Aryan linguistic classification many confuse with a racial classification. To the point that people don't even know Iran/Persia = Land of the Aryans, and white supremists have successfully degraded the proud history of the Persian people. Even now they still had to put up with the movie 300.

I've always wondered why Hitler decided to use the term Aryan. He definitely wasn't Iranic. Not to mention even years after his death those who followed in his philosophy whose his own scientists rejected continue to use the term. If anything, the Indo-European classification (which is also linguistic as well) would be better if they wish to be a bit more historically correct.

Yes, I am talking pre-colonial history. I'm talking Indian society prior to that, and from what Indians who have studied their own history have told me, race and caste system did not exist in ancient India. Also, the Indo-Aryan invasion in India was merely for economical reasons, whenever Iranic nomads needed gold, they headed to India. Persians were not always sedentary in history. A Zoroastrian friend who migrated from Iran taught me much of his history.

Race and caste system was imposed by the British as described above. I trust Indian historians over Anglo historians whose objectivity is questioned too often. Not to mention their theory is much more consistent with other research I've done in the past in regards to the Eurasian steppes - my own homeland, where both Iranic and Altaic histories share.

Funny btw, reminds me of some pureblooded Mongol neo-nazis who have light-hair, light-eyes calling themselves Aryans and that they are 'purest' ;D Government can't be stuffed dealing with 'em.

[palaver]

Aug 2, 2009 8:21:02 GMT -5 Subuatai said:

Race and caste system was imposed by the British as described above. I trust Indian historians over Anglo historians whose objectivity is questioned too often.

There isn't a consensus among Indian historians that the British made up their caste system. That is entirely quite foolish and I assume that denial would be consigned to the nationalist fringe. There is enough description of it in their archeological texts. Not wanting a caste system is very different from not having had a caste system.

[Subuatai]

Yes, those were my views prior to meeting Indians in my travels who were in MALAYSIA - so I'm not sure whether they could be nationalists themselves.

From what I understand however Hinduism was rather theocratic during the Vedic period of Iranic rule before it was overthrown. However this theocratic system according to Indians did not represent their society and only survived from 600-300BC. The Maurya Empire was formed following both Hellenic and Iranic withdrawal from the region.

It's no secret that 300 years was enough to implant the caste system into the minds of Indians however during the Maurya Empire such discrimination was effectively abolished. And it lasted a good 1000 years, until invasions by Central-Asian nomads forming the Delhi Sultanate, and later the Mughal Empire - which was the last Indian Empire prior to British colonisation. Turkic-Mongol domains with Altaic invaders also always favored a meritocratic system which contradicts with a racial or caste system.

So contrary to what others seem to believe, the Vedic period does not represent Indian society. And I wouldn't say that the Indians I've met are nationalists for their views. Not only is the information they provided me consistent with my research on steppe history, but colonial Europeans themselves at that time were also infamous for imposing racial and caste systems, thus my views side with Indians over the Anglos on this one.

[Yoomy]

Jun 5, 2009 7:03:13 GMT -5 Joi said:

Actually, I feel uncomfortable admitting to total strangers that I am Eurasian.. I don't like to and try to avoid it. If I do admit it to people that I am Eurasian I feel awkward with the annoying questions they always ask me. It's like they are trying to challenge me cos they always have to comment on the way i look.. almost always people tell me I don't look Eurasian Then they say I look more Asian ...

But when i deny I am Eurasian yes I do feel guilty ..

Yes!!! When I was growing up, I felt really uncomfortable telling people that I was half english and half chinese, they always had a puzzled look on their face and said that I looked more english. I also had questions thrown at me too! But now I am much much older, everyone is more intrigued and fascinated by the fact that I am eurasian. I do think that eurasian ethnicity is MUCH more accepted now, compared to about 15 years ago thats for sure. I love being eurasian I never really think about it much though.. I just feel normal?

[keeper of the funk]

I Just am what I am. Its not a question of rejecting or conforming, yeah i respect my heritage but considering the only biological member of my fam involved in my upbringing was my mum, ive never been heavily influenced by either of my parents cultures. not enough to feel 'eurasian' is a suitable description for my mixededness

[Subuatai]

"Whether you are this 'race' or that 'race', whether you are 'racially mixed' or 'pure'. In the end who you are can only be defined by you yourself as an individual"

That's a philosophy my wife shared with me over the years, never understood the wisdom behind it until recently. Just like you she has never been heavily influenced by either cultures of her heritage, nor has she ever been accepted into either circles. She actually rejects the idea of an Eurasian identity.

[Kalvien]

now I'm getting mixed feeling toward my motherland. just recently I heard terrible stories that many eurasians in indonesia were murdered and killed by Indonesian nationalist. my granny's father died in 7 september 1945, during the period it's happened. I cant help to feel bit... deceived, because it was never mentioned in indonesian history books. Now I know why the reason my granny, my mother and rest of my eurasian family rejected their eurasian identity. it's dangerous to carry identity being eurasians even after post-colonial period back then.

[Subuatai]

The "Eurasian" identity has many definitions which differ between countries and individuals. To some nationalists, the identity of Eurasian reflects on the past shame of colonial conquests. This is also happening in Afghanistan, Hazara Mongols who strongly identify themselves as Chingghis Khaan's descendants face discrimination, lack of food/water, lack of power as well as the lack of political respect even though the Taliban who ordered ethnic cleansing of the Hazaras was destroyed by American-led troops including Khalkha Mongolian soldiers.

Hazaras are a constant remember. I guess from what you tell me "Eurasians" are that constant reminder as well in Indonesia.

As for history expect politics to get involved in it. I've seen it happen... all the time, in fact I've seen the most well-funded historical projects end up being funded by politicians and their own agenda. All I can say is don't let such bullsh-t overrule your own pride in being who you are as a human being. Those nationalists are just butt-hurt from the past, f--k em.

[jefe]

I am sure that being *Eurasian* has led to being abused or persecuted in many places and societies, as it has been for multiracial people throughout human history. I have read about many occurrences during colonial HK (such as during the segregation era, or durring WWII) -- even matters such as the post-handover immigration rules in Macau and HK could be seen as unfairly harsh on certain groups of Eurasians.

History books everywhere fail to mention abuse and atrocities against multi-racial people. No one wants to believe that their ancestors treated people unfairly.

So, what happens to groups of multi-racial people -- either they become the majority (eg, mestizo populations in Latin America or perhaps neo-Hawaiian) or they assimilate into one of the other groups. There are very few cases where a mixed population can maintain their identity after hundreds of years.

[Subuatai]

^ Yes, the whole "polluted blood" thing. Sometimes it seems Europe and Asia did a 69ner.
While North-Eastern Europe ended up with "racially polluted Caucasians", South-East-Asia ended up with "racially polluted Asians". The result = racism which ends up being justified as "hygienics" "nationalism" "liberation" and/or "self-preservation".

Political agendas tend to get involved with science as well, not just history. As such, truth and objectivism ends up being secondary to the concerns and goals of the state. Racism ends up being just another political tool, just like religion to shamelessly commit atrocities.

One interesting occurance however, is that racially discriminated groups such as African-Americans, Hazaras, as well as Eurasians do end up on a social or political pedestal after a while. But I guess being on a pedestal sometimes isn't a good thing either. In the case of Eurasians, many end up becoming the target for "exotic" fetishes. In the case of African-Americans some White-Americans end up being more angered with African-Americans and consider such social favor due to "white guilt". As for Hazaras - the discrimination continues and perhaps only driven underground with the ethnic cleansing of Hazaras being unsuccessful thanks to the American invasion.

Rejection of the Eurasian identity isn't a good or bad thing in the end, as you have mentioned, yes - many do end up rejecting a multi-racial identity due to racialism. But there are also others who reject it due to having adopted individualism; declaring complete cultural, religious and racial/ethnic independence.

[ay1128]

hi, i'm rather new here on this forum... i was reading this thread and found it very interesting to see how many EA here have a stage in their life where they are confused about there identity.

well, first of all, even though i'm a chinese with dutch ancestry (my dad is 1/4 dutch), i don't really consider myself a eurasian since i believe you have to be 1/2 or at the least 1/4 to be considered eurasian. i was born in taiwan, so growing up as a child, i have always heard the occasional people say that i look like a "WAI GUO" (FOREIGN) child, but i didn't really pay any attention to it. my family moved to california when i was 5 years old, and i always studied at private lutheran school where it is almost about 98% white and probably 2% consisting of minorities (asian, blacks, hispanic, etc), so i had very little interaction with other asian brothers other than my family, but after graduating i started attending a college where there's a lot more asians and also traveling back to taiwan more often; that is when i realized that i actually looked a bit different than a lot of asians; which may come as a surprise to me since i never felt i was different than the other people in my race. some personal experience including being asked from random people if i was "混血" mixed or being told by girls in Taiwan that i looked like i was from France. Even though i told them i wasn't mixed or that my dad had partial Dutch ancestry, people in Taiwan still look at me to be very different from them and still classify me as a 混血 or foreigner.

i'm now 21 almost turning 22, and over the years, i grown to slowly not care so much about what every other people think of me, but there were time where i was both shocked and confused; i usually only have this problem when i visit Asia, but its more likely now that i'm almost done with school, that i may give a shot at living in Taiwan for a while. But the point i'm trying to make is that sometimes unless you are a avery strong willed person, it is very hard for a person to question oneself when the society perceive you differently than the way you perceived yourself.

[jefe]

^ You may be also facing another factor faced by many westernized overseas Chinese, even those that have no known European ancestry.

Westernized Asians act and think more like a westerner, even *carry* themselves differently. Even for people whose parents are both Taiwanese, they somehow look more "western" to local Asians, even though it is not necessarily genetical conclusion. Perhaps it is a combination of diet, mannerisms, behavior, etc. that gives overseas Asians in Western countries a "Western" look. I have known many *FULL* Chinese-Americans who are also asked the same questions. Also, if people don't speak with the local accent, they might interpret them as foreigners -- eg, I am sure that many Singporean Chinese who can speak Mandarin quite fluently would look different to them, and seem very different as well.

It is obvious that you do not consider yourself to be Eurasian (but you could also choose that if you want to -- you do have a Eurasian grandparent -- I have met some people here in HK who are, say, 3/16 non-Chinese, and seem to want people to know that even though they are quite removed from the non-Chinese ancestral culture already. Perhaps you still have some slight *foreign* look to Chinese as some 1/8 Asians might to people of European descent.

I suspect (yet I might be completely wrong) that they are picking up on your behavior and mannerisms and attributing them to your *looks*. In an effort to explain it to themselves, there must be something *non-Chinese* about you, so it must be in your ancestry.

[hypeforlife91]

Sept 15, 2009 2:59:46 GMT -5 @ay1128 said:

hi, i'm rather new here on this forum... i was reading this thread and found it very interesting to see how many EA here have a stage in their life where they are confused about there identity.

well, first of all, even though i'm a chinese with dutch ancestry (my dad is 1/4 dutch), i don't really consider myself a eurasian since i believe you have to be 1/2 or at the least 1/4 to be considered eurasian. i was born in taiwan, so growing up as a child, i have always heard the occasional people say that i look like a "WAI GUO" (FOREIGN) child, but i didn't really pay any attention to it. my family moved to california when i was 5 years old, and i always studied at private lutheran school where it is almost about 98% white and probably 2% consisting of minorities (asian, blacks, hispanic, etc), so i had very little interaction with other asian brothers other than my family, but after graduating i started attending a college where there's a lot more asians and also traveling back to taiwan more often; that is when i realized that i actually looked a bit different than a lot of asians; which may come as a surprise to me since i never felt i was different than the other people in my race. some personal experience including being asked from random people if i was "混血" mixed or being told by girls in Taiwan that i looked like i was from France. Even though i told them i wasn't mixed or that my dad had partial Dutch ancestry, people in Taiwan still look at me to be very different from them and still classify me as a 混血 or foreigner.

i'm now 21 almost turning 22, and over the years, i grown to slowly not care so much about what every other people think of me, but there were time where i was both shocked and confused; i usually only have this problem when i visit Asia, but its more likely now that i'm almost done with school, that i may give a shot at living in Taiwan for a while. But the point i'm trying to make is that sometimes unless you are a avery strong willed person, it is very hard for a person to question oneself when the society perceive you differently than the way you perceived yourself.

Well I find that most asians are quicker to pick up those "mixed traits" than people of other races. They seem to know who looks "different" and "not typical" more often. This is true especially for asians that do not live in the US or Canada...etc..where the population is more diverse and they are more accustomed to seeing the faces of different races. So if you like in lets say..Japan, Korea, HK, Taiwan..etc..and you have those mixed features, the people there are more likely to notice that.

I believe that most white people classify me as Asian, but then Asian people say I look too white to be Asian. Even my full Chinese cousin told me that I look "too GWEI LO" which is white in Cantonese. When I go to places like Chinatown here where there are a lot of Asians, people always can pick out that I don't look full Asian and yeah...I get lots of attention o.o.

It really depends on the faces people are "used to seeing"..I guess. =) I like people to know that I'm mixed instead of lumping me into one category, but hey, what can I do? xD

[ay1128]

Hi Jefe, even though i grew up in America, i'm really not as westernized as a lot of chinese americans that i know here in the State. My family especially my dad who is 1/4 dutch values his Chinese culture very very deeply, even more deeply than the usual. He's the type that would stay at home and watch Chinese news 24/7 and won't ever flip the TV to the english channels. And also i'm quite proud of the fact that even though i grew up in America, i could speak, read, or write mandarin very well to the point even my cousins who is also Chinese American asks me how i do so. I always felt very attached to my distant Taiwanese relative living in TW, since i normally visit TW for about a month a year thru High School, and when i was younger, if its that time to go back to the State, i would shed a few tears; i guess i was kinda different from most ABC here in that i'm still fairly close to my culture even though i grew up in America.

i read your earlier post, and you were talking about how being EA could lead to being persecuted in many places and societies; but i don't really think its that way in TW, HK, or Singapore; maybe in the past. i believe that the younger generations view EA as being "cooler" thats why people with even less European ancestry than me would want people to know that they are EA.

it might be the fact that my mannerism is different or my look is different or even a combination of both that led to the question of my ethnicity; but the fact that Eurasian people looks vary in so many ways some to be white, some in the middle, and some to be asian, its very hard for me to judge what the Eurasian look is and whether the fact i look Eurasian or not since in the end i still do have slight trace of European ancestry. Growing up as a child all my cousins with the same percentage of dutch ancestry as me always called me the mixed one even though i don't really see any difference between me and them. The fact that makes it interesting is that Taipei like HK have a lot of ABC during the Summer, so the locals should have their fair share of the ABCs, so i shouldn't be the only one that stands out, and the fact that i speak very fluent mandarin should make me stand out even less. There are the occasional Asian American that would ask me of my back group; but in regarding to white people, i almost never get asked except only once. so really i think its just that every society or group of people have different perception. Personally in my personal opinion is that i really don't look EA maybe with only a very slight look of the European side... i did post my pictures in the introduction thread under the members forum.

[ay1128]

well hypeforlife91, i do think that Asians seems to be better at picking out the mix group from the non-mix group; and i think the Asians are really the only race that seems to do that compared to Blacks, Hispanics, etc; but thats just my personal opinion.

alot of what you said about how white, asian american, or asian in hk classify you is mostly the same as how i felt. But from your avatar, you look way way more caucasian than i do, judging from that picture i would think that you are a beautiful latina or maybe middle eastern rather than asian or eurasian.

i think when you are in HK, people would probably just assume that you are white maybe not even eurasian; whereas, when i'm in Asia, people could see me as either eurasian or asian but a few instances people see me as white, since i been called "wai guo" before in TW.