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Post by LaFace on Nov 7, 2007 8:13:59 GMT -5
In June 2006, an 8 year old girl by the name of Sofia Rodriguez-Urrutia-Shu was brutally raped and murdered in a shopping centre toilet. Everyday on the news I hear and see tragedy. For some reason, this story stood out on the day that I heard it, and I still think about it to this day. What happened was the little girl was at the shopping centre with her older 14 yr old brother, and uncle or father (can't remember which). Around 4:30pm, I think as they were about to leave, she needed to go to the toilet so she went to the women's bathroom, with her older brother waiting outside the aisle leading to the room. About 10 or so minutes later, after no sign of her sister coming out, her brother went into the bathroom to look for her. Horrifically, what he ended up finding was his little sister on the floor, having been brutally raped and murdered. For me, the reason this was so shocking was because going to the toilet in a shopping centre is an everyday thing that happens. Each and every one of us here has done the same thing, and I'm sure the same has happened whenever you have gone to the mall with a younger relative. Added to this is the fact that her brother was actually looking after her, having waited right outside; how much more protective can you be? People should be able to use toilets whilst feeling safe, especially with your family waiting nearby. I had written an email to the family earlier this year to send a message of support, and they responded with an email showing their appreciation, which they certainly didn't have to do, given the number of letters they would have received since the time of the unfortunate event. Here is a link to a report on what happened in court, and the related issues surrounding the case concerning this little girl who was victim to such unbelievable tragedy. Seeing her young face just breaks my heart, because she has such an innocent smile, and really, it is too young for someone to have their life taken away. It is unfair, as she does not have the chance to experience many of the wonders that life has to offer, and her family cannot watch her grow older to see her have a family, become a teacher, nurse, lawyer etc, and to basically thrive in this world. As for the punishment, it does seem fitting given the limits of how severe a punishment can be, according to WA law, so I am satisfied with the judgement if the family is also satisfied with it. I realise that this is one of many shocking stories around the world the happens daily. However, this particular story has remained with me personally since I first heard it, more so than others, and so I share it with EAN today. Link to the report on what happened in court and the punishment the offender received: news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=113355Link to the Wikipedia article on the offender: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_ArthursLink to her memorial website: www.mcps.wa.edu.au/home/sofia/RIP Sofia Rodriguez-Urrutia-Shu. Next time you see one of your loved ones, give them a hug.
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Post by dannyd on Nov 7, 2007 9:13:49 GMT -5
This case hit me kind of hard too. A terrible tragedy, and just really so unbelievable. 10 minutes.
RIP.
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Post by cjsdad on Nov 7, 2007 11:07:21 GMT -5
Go ahead and call me a yay-hoo American cowboy.
I don't care.
I'd want that bastard dead.
Two "wrongs" don't make a right, blah, blah blah. Whatever.
Dead.
My only consolation as a parent would be thinking that convicts, at least in this country, have a special treat for child molesters in the big house.
He's gonna get to "enjoy" some serious man-rape until the day he dies in the hooscow, but still.....
I'd sleep well at night if I got to be the one to drop the cyanide tablet or pull the switch on the chair. The thought of my tax dollars being spent on feeding and clothing that dirtbag sickens me.
And I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.
Blah blah blah the death penalty doesn't work. Blah blah blah it is a vestige from the dark ages. Save it.
When the guy admits it, and in a case where the facts are not EVEN IN QUESTION, why waste the time and money? Get him off my planet.
/rant off
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Post by Altan on Nov 8, 2007 4:40:46 GMT -5
Gotta be one your guard. When living in a multicultural society with vague values. Australia is one. Doesn't surprise me for it was a penal colony with many deviants all around. Glad I live in the USA where we weren't a country founded on deviants and miscreants. To me it's a brutal land. Well glad I live in the USA.
My heart goes out to Sofia and I know she is dwelling with her ancestors. The ones she can trust in an untrustful society like Australia.
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Post by juancarlos on Nov 8, 2007 7:09:41 GMT -5
"He's gonna get to "enjoy" some serious man-rape until the day he dies in the hooscow, but still....."
I'd have to strongly disagree with you on this one, CJ's Dad. While the criminal deserves the maximum penalty and even more in this case, prison rape should not be part and parcel of the punishment. Prison rape is "cruel and unusual punishment" which is specifically prohibited by the U.S. Constitution. Plus, majority of the victims of prison rape are not hardened criminals like these, but generally people who have committed non-major crimes and are not able to protect themselves from the general prison population.
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Post by shugi on Nov 8, 2007 8:28:52 GMT -5
avsar, which country has the highest executioner styled shootings and legalised guns today, I'd still live in it and not label a entire populace under a poorly founded opinion. I suppose the same theory you used on australia can explain, oh so much of the world today.
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Post by viruslabrat on Nov 8, 2007 9:19:43 GMT -5
Gotta be one your guard. When living in a multicultural society with vague values. Australia is one. Doesn't surprise me for it was a penal colony with many deviants all around. Glad I live in the USA where we weren't a country founded on deviants and miscreants. To me it's a brutal land. Well glad I live in the USA. My heart goes out to Sofia and I know she is dwelling with her ancestors. The ones she can trust in an untrustful society like Australia. ? Were you trying to be funny??? How much Australian history did you study? How many times have you visited/how long have you stayed here? I'd still rather bring up children in Australia than the US. At least our kids don't bring guns to school to shoot everyone. By the way, Dante Arthurs (the murderer) and his family moved to Australia from the UK, where he was investigated for an earlier indecent assault on another young girl. What I wonder is how could his mother not know that her son had these tendencies and still defend him after he assaulted two girls prior to murdering Sofia? As a mother, if your son was investigated for two separate incidents in two different countries would you not keep an eye on him? I know I'd even go to the lengths of going through his things. Then I would've found the list of young girls and their home addresses, the hand-cuffs and the latex gloves he kept in his closet. This whole case sickens me, and the fact it could've been prevented upsets me even more.
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Post by cjsdad on Nov 8, 2007 9:43:22 GMT -5
"He's gonna get to "enjoy" some serious man-rape until the day he dies in the hooscow, but still....." I'd have to strongly disagree with you on this one, CJ's Dad. While the criminal deserves the maximum penalty and even more in this case, prison rape should not be part and parcel of the punishment. Prison rape is "cruel and unusual punishment" which is specifically prohibited by the U.S. Constitution. Plus, majority of the victims of prison rape are not hardened criminals like these, but generally people who have committed non-major crimes and are not able to protect themselves from the general prison population. You know I like and respect you JC, so I'll just as respectfully disagree with you here. I'd only like to clarify that I am not calling for mandating man-rape for criminals as some kind of constitutional amendment. I was speaking emotionally, and as a parent. I was saying I'd want the death penalty in this case, but, if he got life, my consolation would be knowing that he was getting it in the can. Every day. Violently. For the rest of his hopefully miserable existence. Child molesters have a special place in prison. And they deserve it. In my mind child molesters are essentially incapable of "rehabilitation", and it is only a matter of time before they strike again. This guy is a molester AND a murderer, actually better to consider him a monster, so he simply should not be afforded the right to enjoy another day, another meal, another moment on this planet. Period.
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Post by dannyd on Nov 8, 2007 17:23:19 GMT -5
Gotta be one your guard. When living in a multicultural society with vague values. Australia is one. Doesn't surprise me for it was a penal colony with many deviants all around. Glad I live in the USA where we weren't a country founded on deviants and miscreants. To me it's a brutal land. Well glad I live in the USA. My heart goes out to Sofia and I know she is dwelling with her ancestors. The ones she can trust in an untrustful society like Australia. I have the same question for you as Virus, because otherwise I'm going to have to say that that is in contention for the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on this forum. Considering this is the wrong topic to try and exercise any form of misguided wit, I'm going to have to assume the worst. If you are trying to say her fate was of a probabalistic nature of simply living in Australia: According to the FBI, murders in the US in 2005 were about 5.6 per 100,000 people A similar figure for Australia (Albeit it being 2002-2003) is 1.44 I would also be tempted to say we are alot more aware of who is living within our borders. It is alot easier to live an unknown existence in the US with voluntary voting etc. Which, would suggest to me American numbers could be higher and we wouldn't know. Unforuntately on rape statistics, the FBI categorises rape by itself and the Australian bureau of statistics groups sexual assaults in one big category, including rape so I can't compare figures here. I did find the US department of justice published in 2000 that a woman is raped every 90 seconds in the U.S though. Anyway as for your comments on the penal colony, I don't even know where to begin on what is wrong with that. Explain where vague values comes into it? I'm certainly not aware of a particular culture that condones the brutal rape and murder of young girls so I don't see how mixing them is going to increase the likelihood of this happening. The law certainly doesn't condone it. In fact ideally intercultural exposure promotes a greater understanding of other people, difference and opinions and a better awareness of moral values. What you are insinuating is the redneck attitude of your own value set being superior to others, and the fallacious assumption that people within your own culture possess the same moral senses as yourself. How you can pretty much pin the acts of one sick bastard as being a result of Australias penal colony history where plenty of people were sent out here for stealing loaves of bread to feed their families or for rejecting English continued occupation and repression of Ireland. Theres alot wrong with Australia. But there's certainly a sh*t load wrong with the US too. You've given us a conclusion without a single decent premise besides a vague attempt at recalling a history which 1) you probably don't know enough about and 2) cannot be deemed representative of Dante Williams or myself any more than you can be held responsible for offering American Indian tripes 'gifts' of blankets infected with smallpox. Sources: www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/violent_crime/murder_homicide.htmlwww.theage.com.au/news/national/the-az-of-murder-in-australia/2005/10/15/1128796747718.html
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Post by ConceptDesign on Nov 8, 2007 17:42:13 GMT -5
Sorry Danny... the criminal mindset is something thats hard coded in the genes of whitey in Australia. Hell given the high levels of criminal behaviour in the indigenious population, one also has to wonder if there's not some kind of environmental or even spiritual force at work...
Face facts: Australia is a continent of crims. Now lets move on with our lives.
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Post by juancarlos on Nov 9, 2007 5:21:47 GMT -5
"He's gonna get to "enjoy" some serious man-rape until the day he dies in the hooscow, but still....." I'd have to strongly disagree with you on this one, CJ's Dad. While the criminal deserves the maximum penalty and even more in this case, prison rape should not be part and parcel of the punishment. Prison rape is "cruel and unusual punishment" which is specifically prohibited by the U.S. Constitution. Plus, majority of the victims of prison rape are not hardened criminals like these, but generally people who have committed non-major crimes and are not able to protect themselves from the general prison population. You know I like and respect you JC, so I'll just as respectfully disagree with you here. I'd only like to clarify that I am not calling for mandating man-rape for criminals as some kind of constitutional amendment. I was speaking emotionally, and as a parent. I was saying I'd want the death penalty in this case, but, if he got life, my consolation would be knowing that he was getting it in the can. Every day. Violently. For the rest of his hopefully miserable existence. Child molesters have a special place in prison. And they deserve it. In my mind child molesters are essentially incapable of "rehabilitation", and it is only a matter of time before they strike again. This guy is a molester AND a murderer, actually better to consider him a monster, so he simply should not be afforded the right to enjoy another day, another meal, another moment on this planet. Period. Oh, I know where you're coming from. However, in law, we are admonished to "reason free from passion", which can be extremely difficult sometimes, especially in cases like these. Anyhow, I would borrow someone else's words from another thread for my position in this matter ... "When we punish certain actions and remove some people from society for 'the betterment of all mankind' (and perhaps for their own benefit) it does not have to be in the spirit of revenge."
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Post by juancarlos on Nov 9, 2007 6:34:21 GMT -5
People seem to have an inherent desire for fairness and I think that this also relates to the desire for revenge. Many victims would like to see their assailant suffer to one degree or another for what s/he did because it somehow makes things fair again. Tit for tat. Sure it's not a very humane sentiment, but in the eyes of a victim, seeing their assailant get what is in their opinion an easy way out causes them further suffering and/or distress because their desire for fairness hasn't been met. I agree that revenge may not be logical, but emotional matters rarely conform to logic. What is wrong with proportionate revenge if it eases the distress of an innocent victim? Well, how proportionate is proportionate? Is daily violent prison rape proportionate enough?
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Post by juancarlos on Nov 9, 2007 7:13:35 GMT -5
In my opinion proportionate would be for him to go through what his victim went through. An eye for an eye. which is for him to get raped and murdered? And what about those who eventually get acquitted of crimes because of new DNA technology? What will you say to them after they've gone through "proportionate justice"? "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the whole world would soon be blind and toothless." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Post by juancarlos on Nov 9, 2007 8:19:34 GMT -5
Zoff,
I'm not advocating early release for criminals. I'm for their full punishment and in heinous crimes, for them never to be released. What I'm against is torture of those in prison ... which is what prison rape is. It is torture.
JC
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Post by thesa on Nov 9, 2007 8:26:21 GMT -5
"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the whole world would soon be blind and toothless." - Mahatma Gandhi That's a great quote! You know, whatever they'll do to her murderer, it does not bring the little girl back. The girl is gone, forever, and you do best by coping with it and trying to accept it. I don't think the coping process will be alleviated in any way knowing what will happen to the murderer. It's their daughter that the family cares about in the end, not her murderer. RIP
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