UPDATE: The 8 yr old murdered in Perth last year

[juancarlos]

Zoff,

Frankly, I don't understand how we've gotten into this discussion. All I was saying initially was that if you have prison rape as a legal punishment instituted by the government and carried out by prison guards, it may have the consequence of attracting the wrong persons to work as prison guards.

Your point essentially is that the character of the prison guards does not matter so long as they perform their jobs according to the letter of the law. My point is that character really matters, especially that you affirmed that you can't really police thoughts, and that you yourself would prefer not to hire someone who may have tendencies to criminal behavior (even if they're just via verbalized ideas that are not yet acted upon). Yes, character may not matter, if you were in an ideal world.

Again, both the theory and practice of your "an eye for an eye" justice are capricious, tenuous, offensive to majority of society, and extremely impossible to implement justly and smoothly. Gosh, I have other million questions to ask, such as:

1. How do you quantify pain to ensure that the penalty exacted equals the crime committed?

2. What do you do when the punishment exceeds the crime? Punish the punisher?

3. Again, how does one rape "professionally"? Rape itself is not just a physical act, but it carries psychological and emotional ramifications as well. Have you not considered that whoever is doing the mandatory raping might get addicted to it and try to exact this punishment on others when it is not due?

4. This of course will require a more intensive policing of prisons to ensure that the punishment indeed does not exceed the crime committed. Where will you get the resources to do this?


JC

P.S. Pls. explain the relevance of the Mother Teresa question and I'll be pleased to answer questions on her.

[juancarlos]

Zoff,

I know that we will disagree on this issue, but I do respect the fact that you have stuck to the issues and have not gotten personally insulting to me. Oh wait, you need to cos you're the mod. Lol. Now if you really intended to do that or in your head wished to quash me like a mosquito, I would never know.

I think you do have to concede though that punishing rape with rape is a little too extreme for reasons I've already cited before. Corporal punishment (i.e. caning) is one thing, but rape takes it to a whole different level. Plus, we haven't even gotten to discussing the appropriate punishment for serial killers who mutilated their victims (a la Hannibal Lecter). But let's not get into that, it's too gross.

With regard to Mother Teresa, I do admire her because she's one of the few people whose lives had a harmony with their words and actions. I mean if she did not really mean to serve, she would not have stuck it out for several decades of her life in Calcutta. A few years at the most perhaps, but she definitely would not have stayed.

JC

[juancarlos]

Zoff,

So here were your questions regarding Mother Teresa:

---
Mother Theresa could have had the mind equivalent to Hitler's and you will never know because her actions did not give any indication that this was the case. Even if this was the case would that then make her a bad person? Would her thoughts have outweighed her actions or would she in fact be a better person for having done good things despite her impulses telling her to do bad things?
-----

I think you're confusing character with a person's thoughts. The two are not the same. My argument was that character matters in performing a job as critical as a prison guard. Character to me embodies thoughts, values, motives, actions ... essentially who someone is, especially when nobody else is looking.

My point with Mother Teresa is that if she were "faking it", if she really had the character of a "Hitler", then she would not have stayed in Calcutta serving the destitute for all those years. She would have left a long time ago. I think it would have been extremely difficult to be consistently faking character decade after decade.

By the way, you also sidestepped my 2nd paragraph of post #46, unless of course, you're willing to concede all of that. :-)

JC

[cjsdad]

Again, I'd like to point out I NEVER intended to suggest mandating gov't sanctioned rape with prison guard supervision!

I was simply saying, from an admittedly over-emotional standpoint that if the perp was receiving this "treatment" from other inmates....I'd feel like it was a bit of his just desserts.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

Lots to think about.

[juancarlos]

cjsdad said:

Again, I'd like to point out I NEVER intended to suggest mandating gov't sanctioned rape with prison guard supervision!

I was simply saying, from an admittedly over-emotional standpoint that if the perp was receiving this "treatment" from other inmates....I'd feel like it was a bit of his just desserts.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

Lots to think about.

Oh I know you did not suggest government mandated rape as punishment. That was an offshoot of my discussion with his moderator highness, Zoff. :-)

[juancarlos]

zoffster1 said:

^^ I missed that paragraph, I was probably writing my response at the time, but I'm willing to concede that.


p.s. you still didn't answer the question, you gave me a politicians answer.

We're speaking hypothetically, don't think of it in practical terms, just imagine that what I suggested is true. What then is your answer?

What the heck is a "politician's answer"? [As in spelling bee]: May I get a definition and origin please? ;D

Ok, about Mother Teresa ... as I said before "character" is a totality of a person's inner being and outward actions. What you are trying to do is to isolate the person's mind from their actions. I don't personally view it that way.

Thus, if we were able to read Mother Teresa's mind, and I found out that all the while that she was doing her charity work her motivations were to feel racially superior to the Indian people, etc., then I would think less of her as a person, despite all her hard work. Again, from a practical stand point, it's almost impossible to manifest that inconsistency day in day out for decades.

I think that's why we question politicians' motivations when they do charitable deeds ... cos you're always wondering if it's for real or just a photo op.

[LaFace]

RIP Sofia Rodriguez-Urrutia-Shu

1997/1998 - 2006

[Altan]

RIP ...which I don't think that's a problem.
You are already there....R.I.P. from heart and soul....can+jan.

Saalaam and Peace.