Would you still eat meat if.....

[Freecia]

^ Yeah. My grandparents and some relatives are all vegans and constantly try to convince me that eating meat is a sin because well, they're buddhists and believe in preserving lives rather than killing it. I don't like to kill lives either but I just don't agree with them. This is how nature works. Some of us eat meat, some of us eat plants, some of us eat both. Whatever keeps us living. You're right though, there's no concrete evidence supporting humans being herbivores, carnivores or omnivores.

[daisypukes]

^I'm Buddhist, too. That's probably why I'm vegan. I have to disagree about the "nature" aspect though. The way that animals are treated in most major dairy farms and egg factories is NOT natural. I won't go into it too much, because I don't want to somehow slip into a long rant about animal abuse, but it's just NOT natural. I understand that different people value different things, and I can respect other people's choices, but I just can't agree that the meat industry is in any way natural. Not in the way the animals are treated, what they're pumped full of, what they're fed, or how they're killed. Anyway, different strokes.

[Freecia]

^ Oh no, I meant what animals eat in terms of evolution.

[cjsdad]

The adult human dentition, when viewed from an anthropologic perspective, would most closely resemble that of an omnivore.

The reason this is unpopular and treated as "pseudoscience", and often avoided by research, is all the social, cultural, and moral implications.

It is one of those scientific "hot potatoes" that nobody wants to talk about.

Like human sexuality used to be, evolution vs intelligent design vs creatinism, when life begins in the womb, etc. etc.

It is nearly impossible to disassociate the scientific discussion from the redfaced angry discussions that result, as interpretation of data is....in fact....INTERPRETATION of data.

When we climbed out of the trees, or if you prefer, slithered out of the primordial slime, we didn't exactly come out loaded for bear.
No claws. Wimpy teeth. Very little fur. Soft skin. You get the point.
All we had was a big pulsating brain when compared to the beasties with regard to competitive advantage

Thinking logically, we needed food energy. Any way we could get it. You couldn't cultivate grains and forage for berries in the middle of winter. Mr fuzzy bunny needed trapping. Or a spear in the vital organs. Hunter/gatherer meant exactly that. BOTH hunter AND gatherer.

Now, with all that semi-cience hocuspocus out of the way......we aren't living like that anymore.
We CAN live as vegans or vegetarians, quite successfully.

And if you CHOOSE to live that way from a philisophical or moral imperative, be my guest.

But please don't try to convince anyone that somehow a purely vegetarian diet is somehow superior to an omnivorous one.

A little meat is fine, in fact good for you.
A balanced diet rich in all the essential vitamins, mineral, proteins, carbohydrates, and fats can be achieved in myriad ways or combinations of foods.

Variety is good, portion control is good, exercise is good.

Common sense is good.

Vegan/vegetarianism is a choice, not a panacea.
As I stated in my first post.....how lucky we are to live in a time and place when food can be CHOSEN, rather than struggled for just for survival.

[jpeezy]

Not sure. I'd try to hold off for awhile, since I'm against hunting and animal cruelty, but after awhile I might crave the protein, then who knows what I'll do!

[0]

@ CJ'sdad
I think the incisors, pernicious anemia and eyes in the front of the skull like other predators pretty much cinched the argument for me about our roots, plus the fact that our closest relatives the chimp and gorilla also eat small animals and insects.

All that being said I can see how people are concerned with cruelty, pain etc in the modern farm and wouldn't want to support it. Ideally I will have a home with a yard that holds a goat, a couple of chickens and a fish pond to satisfy all parts and parties. I mostly consume non-mammal flesh and get the majority of my protein from milk products, eggs, fish and poultry.

And if my family is hungry those animals don't stand a chance. In fact I think its alot more honorable to actually slay your own meal instead of pretend it doesnt exist, buy it prepackaged at the store and then bitch about furcoats being murder.

[i move the stars for no one]

jpeezy said:

since I'm against hunting and animal cruelty

i just have to say,i don't think the two are automatically synonymous.

[cjsdad]

Yeah.

The moral high ground is easy on a full stomach.

When that tummy starts grumbling watch the stick sharpening begin.

[jpeezy]

juniper said:

jpeezy said:

since I'm against hunting and animal cruelty

i just have to say,i don't think the two are automatically synonymous.

Well no, but as said above, KFC and other fast food places treat their animals terribly before packaging them for consumers. I'm sure one could hunt humanely, but that would take excellent aim or a really big gun to ensure the animal didn't suffer.

[i move the stars for no one]

oh,i agree that a lot of the techniques used for mass-producing meat are awful,no arguement there.i just think there should be a distinction between suffering that happens as a byproduct of legitimate hunting (which would hopefully be ended as soon as possible) and intentional cruelty to the animal intended to be eaten.

[daisypukes]

@cj's Dad: Well, I don't personally remember saying that a no-meat/egg/dairy diet would have been possible at a time when we didn't have the resources that we now do. A hundred years ago and I would not be vegan, I'd be vegetarian. But we're not talking about a hundred years ago, are we? Today we can easily forgo many things that we couldn't have afforded to lose at different points in history. Times are a changin. And I have to disagree with meat being healthy, unless it is organic and high quality, I somehow doubt it. Just looking at the amount of chemicals present in most meat sold in your average grocery store I simply can't agree that it's healthy.

And yes, aren't we lucky to live in a time when we have so many choices...and with those choices I choose to avoid an industry that I feel is detrimental to animals. What was the point of that attack? If there's anything I really can't stand, it's people assuming that I'm being judgmental of them and jumping to conclusions about my stance.

[Roam'n]

dannyd said:

Been there, done that.

I spared a though for my kill for a moment, but still very much enjoyed my dinner.

In my opinion, to answer 'no' for cruelty reasons then still persist in eating meat killed by others, ignorant of the method which they used, would be simply hypocritical.

That's how i feel exactly! I'm a meat eater.... I just don't slaughter animals, but I wouldn't put it beyond me in order to feed me and my family. I'm fully aware of where my burger comes from. I consider it a part of the cycle of life.

(btw I like how this thread reads "Would you still eat me.." from the parent forum list)

[daisypukes]

You think for an animal to be pumped full of chemicals, forced to be cannibals (cows and chickens are both fed feed that contains meat from their own species, as well as dog meat), be shoved in tiny little cages and have their beaks clipped or welded shut so that they don't peck each other to death (in the case of egg factory chickens) while they live cramped together in their sh*t and piss with little or no veterinary care, be stomped on kicked and thrown against walls (in the case of chickens in the chicken farms which brings KFC it's kill), and thrown by the thousands into woodchippers when they can no longer produce eggs (in the case of egg factory chickens) while still alive, is somehow the cycle of life? f**k it, I'm severely pissed off at this smug attitude being thrown at me. If I'm going to be accused of being judgmental, I might as well commit the crime.

www.woodstockfas.org/downon.shtml

Honestly, I really don't care what other people put into their bodies or what their morals are. I'm past that teenage phase of wanting everyone to be vegan like me, I realize that not everyone's going to care about the same things that I do. And I don't judge them harshly for it. But I cannot f**king STAND having it insinuated that my stance is some prissy bitch stance. This happens to me a lot in real life, people jumping down my throat when they find out I'm vegan and expecting me to be down for a big fight about it. I've found that meateaters are incredibly judgmental of me, simply because they assume I'm going to judge them. And it's irritating as all f**king hell. You live your life, I'll live mine, and I'm not looking down my nose at you so please stop dripping your snot on me. Seriously, this was a thread about meat-eating, so the people who don't partake obviously are going to mention that they don't. But if I have to hear something about my "high moral ground" in that condescending way again I'm gonna kill a motherf**ker. Seriously...I've always wanted to try human meat.

[LaFace]

cjsdad said:

It's nice to live in a time and place when you have a choice.



I can't speak for others, but if it's me, and I'm hungry/starving.......ANY animal better hope it is pretty fast.

^haha for me, lunch or dinner does not feel complete without some form of animal in my stomach.

If I personally had to slaughter my meal, then I would only do it after say a matter of days as a last resort, if food supplies were on the brink of disappearing.

I think one would grow accustomed to slaughtering animals for food if it was a common practice. For example, this is regularly done with fish in all forms of society. Generally, people do not feel as reluctant about this because it is viewed as more 'normal', where as say slaughtering a pig isn't a common occurrence.

[daisypukes]

Holy crap...I just read what I just wrote and...dayum...I didn't think I could still be that bitchy over such little (and arguably nonexistent) provocation. Must remember to take my antipsychotic meds...