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Post by swinger on Oct 7, 2008 23:14:08 GMT -5
No knives. Just be upfront about an offer, I guess. Let the person accept that offer or not, leave the relationship, and come to you. Or not. That's a pretty sober approach - I like it. It's hypothetical, not "hypothetical" - really! I find single women to be enough trouble - Lord knows I won't try messing with a taken one! |
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Post by long on Oct 7, 2008 23:17:05 GMT -5
Single women may actually tend to be the crazier ones..  j/k |
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Post by LaFace on Oct 7, 2008 23:20:49 GMT -5
Generally the committed person should simply end the dissatisfying relationship. Ultimately, it's not much of a victory if you're the one who ends up with a person willing to go behind their partner's back. ^Agree with this. And if this 'committed' person doesn't want to end the relationship, my advice for the outside person is to ABORT! ABORT!  lol What may seem like an unnecessary 'artificial sequencing' of the breakup process to someone outside of the relationship, is often likely to not be that to the person who will be 'cheated on' within the relationship. No one understands the relationship as well as the two people within it, and so both parties deserve a fair go. The person on the outside doing the persuading isn't likely to have as good an understanding of the relationship as those within it, because the outsider's understanding is more than likely to be fed from one side of this relationship, which consequently causes the outsider to have a view which is at least biased to some degree. Hence, the outsider viewing the artificial sequencing as exactly that, 'artificial'. The outsider's opinion of the relationship may in fact have merit, but because there are two sides, the outsider cannot assume how the other party feels, and so I believe the 'persuadee' has a moral obligation to let the other person within the relationship know of his/her intentions, before they actually do them. Edit: This post refers to a relationship which doesn't involve marriage, children, nor the couple living together. That's on another level of seriousness in my books! |
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Post by dead0baby0chick on Oct 7, 2008 23:21:45 GMT -5
@long: Sometimes leaving is easier said than done. I know it's cowardly, but when you're emotionally tied to someone, even though you know it's not working...sometimes leaving is just too difficult. I hope you agree that once you're at the point where you're considering straying there's something dramatically wrong and the relevant issues either need to be immediately addressed within the relationship, or it's time to move on. As far as emotional attachment goes, believe me I know all about that, from both ends - having, at my young age, been in an off and on 10 year relationship. Again, easy to say. And even easier to judge.  You can't really know what's going on in a relationship unless you're in it. There are a lot of reasons to stay with someone you are unhappy with, some very valid though I don't want to point them out because they are too personal to my recent past. In such a case, it's best to stay with the person until a time at which you can leave. And better, for avoiding possible messiness, not to start seeing other people in that time frame. But then sometimes you meet someone in that time frame. And then...so the f*** what? |
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Post by long on Oct 7, 2008 23:29:55 GMT -5
"You can't really know what's going on in a relationship unless you're in it."
- You're absolutely right. I had meant to say that the person within the relationship needs to make that call.
"There are a lot of reasons to stay with someone you are unhappy with.... it's best to stay with the person until a time at which you can leave."
- If you've decided to leave, the only reasons I can think of are:marriage, children, you live together, or you rely on them financially. The first two are understandable difficulties, I don't know about the latter.
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Post by Pocky Monster on Oct 7, 2008 23:34:58 GMT -5
-In terms of a serious relationship: Would you feel comfortable being in a relationship with someone you know has been unfaithful before? That thought looming about in either person's head would be poison. -Karma's a bitch. -With any relationship: Let's say you're interested in fooling around with someone new. How many people would ask for a STD test off the bat? Try asking their bf/gf for one too. Then be nice enough to get one for your current SO. Not all STDs are visibly detectable and you don't have to have sex to contract them. -In my book hiding something is being dishonest. So kids, let's play fair. Eh, to each their own. My answer is no, I'm not okay with it. edit: LOL I'm really not that angry! ;D |
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Post by dead0baby0chick on Oct 7, 2008 23:50:32 GMT -5
^As far as karma goes...I want to believe in relationship karma but I just don't. I mean, my first relationship I was treated like crap and cheated on. I had never done anything in that relationship to deserve it and prior to it, since it was my first, obviously nothing. I think relationship karma is a nice idea, particularly if you've just been used by someone and are trying to placate your anger by imagining that they'll find themselves in the same predicament later. And they probably will...but then...so probably will you. I don't think it's karma so much as the nature of relationships playing itself out over and over again. And as far as sex goes, be safe. It isn't just the "villains" that get STDs. It's hardly a judgment from god.
@long: No, there are other reasons.
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Post by Pocky Monster on Oct 8, 2008 0:12:34 GMT -5
^ You're right. Karma can't determine anything. It's really quite selfish, innit? I'd just like to think it could guide people to make better choices regarding how to treat others in their life.
On an unselfish note, STDs are for everyone. Yay! ;D
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Post by straylight on Oct 8, 2008 0:14:17 GMT -5
I'm with you Tampon. Karma never did anything for me, good or bad!  I've been practically an angel at times, and still got hurt. |
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Post by Pocky Monster on Oct 8, 2008 0:22:35 GMT -5
hmm.. Thinking about karma makes me be a better person. I'm pretty selfish, so that extra budge helps.
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Post by dead0baby0chick on Oct 8, 2008 0:31:25 GMT -5
I think when it comes down to it...the way people think about cheating or stealing an SO from someone else...it's basically broken up into the idealists and realists. Neither stance is right or wrong, it just depends on how you look at it. For me, I'm a realist about it. Though I would like human relationships to be less hurtful and hateful and awful...that's just what they are a lot of times. And other times they're beautiful and great and soul enriching. Whatever. |
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Post by long on Oct 8, 2008 0:35:08 GMT -5
^
My main point being that if the relationship is wonderful, cheating would never occur. This third-party hypothetical moral question distinctly implies a compromised relationship for me.
For the innocents, victimized by less than faithful partners, concerned about the apparent lack of karmic justice it's probably worth while to remember that you are far better off alone than still with a partner that would go behind your back, in a relationship that is much less than what you had imagined. Cold comfort I know. The karmic payback comes to the cheater in that they have lost a fine person such as yourself.
Though I may seem like the devil's advocate so far, I hope it's clear that I agree with what Siam has said.
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Post by i move the stars for no one on Oct 8, 2008 14:36:14 GMT -5
granted,the purse analogy was a poor one,i don't believe that monogamy=ownership.However,i stand by what i said.if you want someone badly enough to pursue them even though they're taken,wouldn't you have the patience to wait for them to do the honest thing and break up with the person they're with?if all that's just rigamarole and not worth waiting for,i'd think that the pursuer had problems with instant gratification and with wanting only what's unavailable. tampon patrol pointed out that you can't know what's going on in a relationship unless you're in it,in my opinion that's an argument for either side.even if,as swinger posited,the relationship appears to be a abusive one,someone on the outside can't know all the details.haven't we all heard stories about men who thought they were rescuing women from husbands who hit them only to have those women go back to their husbands even after potential danger from them has passed?sometimes people do stay in horrible relationships for incomprehensible reasons.if they start forming new relationships before ending and processing old ones,it doesn't bode well for the future.i'm human,i understand temptation and the thrill of something new and how special it can feel.but it'd be doing a disservice to the comittment i made to one person to move on to something else before formally ending what already existed. long and others have made similar points more eloquently (and i think in fewer words .) |
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Post by i move the stars for no one on Oct 8, 2008 15:03:49 GMT -5
I think when it comes down to it...the way people think about cheating or stealing an SO from someone else...it's basically broken up into the idealists and realists. Neither stance is right or wrong, it just depends on how you look at it. For me, I'm a realist about it. Though I would like human relationships to be less hurtful and hateful and awful...that's just what they are a lot of times. And other times they're beautiful and great and soul enriching. Whatever. just saw this after i posted.i understand what you're getting at but i still just have to disagree-i don't think it's unrealistic to get out of something before starting something new.i'll admit full out that i've been horribly,gut-wrenchingly,soul-searingly tempted,and that i've gotten emotionally deeply attached to someone before i ended the relationsip i was in (whch is a whole other debate,emotional infidelity.)but i did it.i did it in a flawed,hurtful way,but i still think it was more honest than physically cheating on my bf at the time or even getting more deeply emotionally involved with the other dude.it might make me a bitch and selfish,but it sure doesn't make m an idealist.  |
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Post by dead0baby0chick on Oct 8, 2008 19:22:40 GMT -5
Well, the odd thing is...I don't think I've ever cheated except in situations where I was cheated on first. Which should alleviate some guilt, but somehow I still feel guilty. Obviously, that means that I must at my core feel that I'm doing something wrong, but it doesn't stop me. I think it's a case of moral socialization clashing with internal drives. I don't know. As far as deception to the outside temptation party by the cheating party goes, that is true. You can't really believe anything a guy (or girl, I'd imagine) is saying about their horrible SO, because they're likely either saying it to convince you or to convince themselves. But I still don't think it makes the person inherently wrong and unworthy of your own affection. I think when all's said and done, everyone's a flawed individual and not always as brave as they should be, but that wouldn't make me shy away from being with them. It's unfortunate that it would possibly cause someone else pain (but then, that's life)...but unless I actually know the injured party personally and feel a loyalty to them, I don't see it as wrong on my part. The way I look at it, you have to know someone to hurt them. I don't see myself as the one hurting them. Cheating is about will power, if their SO is not exercising will power then that's on them alone. Because, really, it's not that hard not to cheat if you feel that the abstention is worthwhile. |
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j/k
You can't really know what's going on in a relationship unless you're in it. There are a lot of reasons to stay with someone you are unhappy with, some very valid though I don't want to point them out because they are too personal to my recent past. In such a case, it's best to stay with the person until a time at which you can leave. And better, for avoiding possible messiness, not to start seeing other people in that time frame. But then sometimes you meet someone in that time frame. And then...so the f*** what?
I've been practically an angel at times, and still got hurt.
