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Post by Subuatai on May 23, 2009 7:50:35 GMT -5
Now due to my wife's individual charm and personality, I found it difficult be racist against her the majority of the time. But I just did not want the relationship to get serious (yet at the same time I wanted it - it was kinda mind-glogging). Hence I threw her race in her face trying to push her away and pushed her away I did repeatedly. Very childish to be honest looking back. The fact that your wife stayed with you after all that shows her strength in character.. She seems much more forgiving and open-minded then you, realizing that you would come around eventually. Look at how far you've come  .. And you get to make a brand new start, marked by the birth of your beautiful mixed baby girl! I think your new family will be the best thing that has ever happened to you . I have faith in the fact you will start to accept your wife's background as she has accepted yours. Heh she's much more then just forgiving and open-minded, that's another reason I tended to push her away. She was too dam good and I hated it. "You deserve someone better", she responded with "I deserve to be with someone I love". In the end, she is a much better person and leader then I would probably be. She's not only opened up my mind in terms of race, but also religion; as she is a very strong Christian - though not one of the religious ones. |
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Post by meep on May 23, 2009 7:51:13 GMT -5
It's not really about arguing what should or shouldn't be the case. It's about seeing what the case actually is. Race shouldn't matter, but does it? I can't answer this question for everyone. For me, personally, no. Race in terms of genetics is nothing, does not determine culture, personality traits, and all things important that makes someone who they are and thus means nothing. |
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Post by meep on May 23, 2009 7:55:34 GMT -5
I think race is your blood and culture is... culture. But I think certain races are associated with certain cultures. The actions of the Chinese may fall under the culture category and so, cause (some) people to associate those actions with that group's corresponding associated race. As for one's own race, it seems most people like to take pride in their associated cultures. (Part of adopting this may include being hostile or stand-offish toward "enemy" cultures/races.) I dunno, I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm just making amateur observations... I think you have a pretty evolved way of thinking, which is why it might seem really stupid. ;P Race is genetics. Certain peoples of a certain geographical area are associated with certain cultures. And, for example: the actions of the Chinese in general are the result of common shared experiences that then contribute to a common shared 'Chinese' culture. Haha, sorry to be so nit picky and p/c about everything.  |
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Post by halfbreed on May 23, 2009 8:20:03 GMT -5
I can't answer this question for everyone. For me, personally, no. Race in terms of genetics is nothing, does not determine culture, personality traits, and all things important that makes someone who they are and thus means nothing. Well, you would make a swell mother.  Race is genetics. Certain peoples of a certain geographical area are associated with certain cultures. True, but what of the racially Asian girl born and raised in Australia? Don't you think she'd often be seen as the one to direct your 'Asian' (culture) questions to? And, for example: the actions of the Chinese in general are the result of common shared experiences that then contribute to a common shared 'Chinese' culture. A good statement, but I wonder... just how much could a non-Chinese person be a part of Chinese culture if they grew up there, etc.? I can't imagine they'd be treated the same and get the 'whole experience'... Haha, sorry to be so nit picky and p/c about everything. You're supposed to be. |
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Post by Subuatai on May 23, 2009 8:28:03 GMT -5
How on earth did you fare living in a multi cultural city like Sydney? (provided that that is where you live and have lived, and if not, a multicultural, predominantly white nation-state that is Australia?) As I mentioned before, despite my extreme racism in the terms of two human categories; "Human race and human trash". I still judged people based on an individual basis. However, whenever they act what I considered "typical', I placed them into the 'human trash' category and failed to even see them as human beings. My wife was an exception; as I was as afraid of her as much as I felt for her. She was simply a great woman, and as I mentioned before, I considered her to be my ultimate worse nightmare if things got serious; I never wanted a Nordic or Chinese child you see. I wasn't always like this however. As when I grew up I was always treated fairly. During my youth everyone always admired my heritage and I made friends very easily. Unfortunately, such acceptance managed to assimilate me. Sure it was the culture I was born and raised in, but not the culture my parents grew up in - so I still consider myself assimilated at that time. I have no quarrels with the majority of Aussie aspects in terms of culture. However, growing up as an Aussie I ended up looking down on all non-Mongol Asians, foreigns who refused to assimilate and native Australians calling them Abos/Boongs/Coons. I became disgusted with that after I met my second girlfriend - who was native Australian (what the world still call "Aboriginal people"). I guess there's this "guilt" thing I still have due to my stupidity in my youth. Hence I de-assimilated myself from Aussie culture. I'm in a mixed stance with Australia. On one hand I still feel pride for this country; as no matter how hard I try I won't deny I can't lose fondness for the country I was born in. Due to my accent which is completely Aussie, my mentality, and how I grew up, people still say to me "No matter what you call yourself nowadays, you're still Australian." However, I won't deny that Australia has problems. Australia calls itself a multi-cultural country yet only 1 language is spoken and all others are discriminated against. Non-assimilated foreigners are also heavily discriminated unless they become "full-aussie". That's just how it is. However, nowadays, part of me still carries this racial "human race and human trash" mentality. And even though I have spoken ill of the reality of Australian culture, I won't deny that in Mongolia; many are very racist against Chinese and immigration. I have managed to put many of my own people into the human trash category as of late. Nonetheless, these songs (even though they're made into commercials for Telstra - RIPOFF communications company, and Qantas Airlines); They still touch me. But unfortunately as I was raised on the street, knowing as much about Australia as any other native - these songs bring more sadness then joy. Me and my wife had plans to emigrate even though we are both natives, and Australian citizens. Nonetheless, I still have a heart for this country, just deeply buried. |
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Post by meep on May 23, 2009 8:34:12 GMT -5
I can't answer this question for everyone. For me, personally, no. Race in terms of genetics is nothing, does not determine culture, personality traits, and all things important that makes someone who they are and thus means nothing. Well, you would make a swell mother. True, but what of the racially Asian girl born and raised in Australia? Don't you think she'd often be seen as the one to direct your 'Asian' (culture) questions to? A good statement, but I wonder... just how much could a non-Chinese person be a part of Chinese culture if they grew up there, etc.? I can't imagine they'd be treated the same and get the 'whole experience'... Haha, sorry to be so nit picky and p/c about everything. You're supposed to be. Thank you!  I would direct my 'Asian' questions to someone that is culturally well connected to an Asian culture, rather than someone who looks Asian but knows nothing about Asian culture. A non-Chinese person living in China but who does not have mongoloid features could be disadvantaged in terms of joining completely the Chinese community. This is just my assumption, it may not be the case. Historically, though, people from all over the world were excepted by the Chinese and part took in Chinese society with full acceptance of the ethnic Chinese only if they learned well the Confucian Analects. Interesting. |
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Post by Subuatai on May 23, 2009 8:50:40 GMT -5
^ My wife speaks fluent Mandarin, she was never accepted as Chinese, even in Australia, and even in a Church. So your assumption is very accurate from what I've noticed.
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Post by jenbrook on May 23, 2009 8:54:07 GMT -5
Yup.. I grew up in asia, but i never spoke the language (mother enforced english) so i never assimilated into asian culture. Sad but true.
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Post by halfbreed on May 23, 2009 8:54:13 GMT -5
I would direct my 'Asian' questions to someone that is culturally well connected to an Asian culture, rather than someone who looks Asian but knows nothing about Asian culture. Kids, though, they'd probably do it. Not yet having grown out of their ignorance, they associate the race with the culture. Aha!  XP A non-Chinese person living in China but who does not have mongoloid features could be disadvantaged in terms of joining completely the Chinese community. This is just my assumption, it may not be the case. Historically, though, people from all over the world were excepted by the Chinese and part took in Chinese society with full acceptance of the ethnic Chinese only if they learned well the Confucian Analects. Interesting. Orly? I'm learning a lot from this thread... Before it, I didn't know Mongols and Chinese had a bad thing. |
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Post by Subuatai on May 23, 2009 8:57:00 GMT -5
Common history known worldwide about how much both our ancestors have fought each other, yet you had NO IDEA? O.O ROFL!!!! Heh sorry... My wife however, she is my Mulan |
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Post by jenbrook on May 23, 2009 8:59:14 GMT -5
Dude! Dont give her sh*t, there have been so friggin many conflicts in our history, you cant be expected to know about all of them.. although it would be really cool to.
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Post by halfbreed on May 23, 2009 9:03:09 GMT -5
I saw an episode of Southpark where the owner of the Chinese restaurant built a wall around the town and Mongols kept trying to knock it down, but that was it.
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Post by Subuatai on May 23, 2009 9:05:22 GMT -5
Read what I've weathered from my own people in Asuult forum for being one of few Mongol people defending Chinese people nowadays. Giving HER sh*t? Ha! It's far behind me now, nowadays every voice inside me cries out for peace.
So why judge me for my past, when my present mentality is much different?
Both our people have racists amongst us. It's time to end this. Tell your people about me, as I have told my own people about the countless Chinese people who are indeed human beings with a culture and history as rich as ours.
I'm tired of fighting left right and center. I'm getting dam old!
Just reminded me too that a friend once told me of this saying "I guess old wolves do not know how to live when their fangs fall out" but I know exactly how I would rather live. I can see it in the eyes of my wife, I can feel it everytime my daughter kicks.
Let's both our people end this!
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Post by halfbreed on May 23, 2009 11:19:43 GMT -5
My home's actually decorated with paintings of Mongolians. ;D And they were done by a Eurasian artist who's half Chinese. ;D   |
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Post by Subuatai on May 23, 2009 11:23:36 GMT -5
@stray
Considering how hard it is as a Mongol myself having fought yet achieved nothing as one man's voice changes nothing; good luck with your own views as a foreigner.
It's more then just historical, as I have mentioned repeatedly.
It's plain racism; Mongols, Central-Asian and Ancient Turks, and Siberians, based on genetics and physical differences, are considered "Tungid or Turanid race", Northern Chinese are considered hybrids between Mongols and the Sino race. Southerners are considered purebloods. Now many Mongols have a rather disturbing superiority complex against everyone non-Mongol. As Chinese immigration is the main most serious threat, Chinese bear the weight of it.
This is not the culture my father has taught me, nor is it the culture that inspired my grandmother who was Russian to raise our family as Mongols. This is not nomadic culture, as it carries the same problems and despicable problems as the enemies we so fiercely despise.
With both Anglo-Australians as well as Mongols judging my daughter before she is even born, I have never felt so alienated in my life. I feared this for so long, but it looks like now I'm face to face with it.
To be honest, I don't really know what to do nowadays. You may want to stop poverty but charity won't get rid of it completely, you may want to stop diseases but as human you are not God, you may want to stop racism whether violent or subtle but one voice means nothing.
If you are so full of ideas, then you tell me what to do - because only thing I've come up with is realising that there is no escape; there is no utopia where I can ensure my daughter will be raised as a human being. I can carry on such hatred against racists but only end up with more court fines; money which can be spent on my daughter.
All I can do... is throw a coin into the wishing well and pray for all this to end.
EDIT: Truth is, I won't deny that there is growing hatred within me ever since my wife fell pregnant. I promised myself by blood once during my youth to never let my children suffer what I myself had to suffer. Yet this world is making such a promise impossible to uphold.
Despite of all the racism I have seen and even admittedly contributed to myself, I have never seen such real racism that had the nerve to judge and dehumanise my daughter before she is even born. Hence, it's hard to let go of this "human race and human trash" categorisation.
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.. And you get to make a brand new start, marked by the birth of your beautiful mixed baby girl! I think your new family will be the best thing that has ever happened to you 
XP