cm
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by cm on Sept 25, 2007 1:22:18 GMT -5
Like I said, ALL RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS SUCK
From the ultra right Christian-Judeo lobby, to the jihadists.
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Post by Ave` on Sept 25, 2007 1:59:00 GMT -5
seejayeff: Now now, come to Mommy, shh...everything is going to be alright now.
Mr. zoff: I love it how you quote random comments to make sense of things :] Keep trying youll get there.
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Post by Ajeno on Sept 25, 2007 2:04:35 GMT -5
Why is there a fear of Islam and why is it associated with negativity!? are you effing serious?..Thats it you all are done for the night.
MissWorldTraveller - Try reading Ethel's post again and think objectively this time.Your not exactly an ambassador for Islam either you know.
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Post by Ave` on Sept 25, 2007 2:19:10 GMT -5
Mr. zoff: It amuses me very much to see ppl reaction to my sarcastic comment. I didnt even have to mean it and everyone duck in fear ROFl amusing indeed my friend.
Ajeno: You try to make sense of Ethel's meandering comments and then get back to me OK.
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Post by Ave` on Sept 25, 2007 3:02:05 GMT -5
Im against Muslim ppl explaining themselves to the world. I dont think they owe anyone explaination as much as other ppl owe them explaination for acting like a bunch of chicken with big guns. I think if you wanna know about a certain group of ppl, you ask and if you wanna make your own assumption and make an a$$ out of yourself, no ones gonna stop you. Go wild. This is what this thread is for anyway.... tata im gonna get a hair cut. Anyone favours for pictures of my new look?
better?
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Post by miaim on Sept 25, 2007 5:17:41 GMT -5
well if it goes both ways, non-Muslim westerners should also do a much better job of explaining the role of their governments, which were elected democratically, in what is happening in the Muslim world and beyond....what your government or a minority of your people does not represent your people, but what a government in a majority Muslim country or a minority of Muslims do represents their religion? what kind of hypocritical double standard is that?
it's basically a convo between a deaf bully (the West) and the bullied (the rest of the world) desperate to be heard....which is why there is no "dialogue"....
and none of you westerners will accept any explanation that doesn't fit your prejudiced views on Islam and Muslims....which is why Muslims or anyone else get frustrated....
MWT is right: the thread merely exposes the ignorant prejudices of the posters and not much else.....
after all what western governments do does not represent the people of the West (even though the governments were democratically elected) but what an unelected government in a Muslim country or a minority of Muslim radicals do represents Islam the religion and the Muslim community....
yeah, noone outside the West is buying this bulls*** - and if you didn't know, it's only because you choose to lock yourself up in your own little west-centric world.... broaden your horizons - different people have different perceptions of the world....
peace
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Post by waywardwolf on Sept 25, 2007 5:24:13 GMT -5
what western governments do does not represent the people of the West I am all for this statement. I don't like governments in general, but it's been down right embarrassing to have a president like Bush.
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Post by miaim on Sept 25, 2007 5:48:35 GMT -5
yes, but then the same applies to others - the ultra-conservative/fundamentalists are not representative of Islam/Muslims, either....and that's that.....
can't have it both ways....
judge others the way you would judge yourself: in general, that means with kiddie gloves....
and if you (not you personally but in general) can't take criticism of yourself, your country's foreign policy or anything else you consider your's, then don't do it to others....
and refrain from whinging and whining and demanding that others behave better than you.....
get it, folks?
EDIT: and no, it's not off-topic, since none of you have enough knowledge of Islam or the Muslim world....and you won't read any links that are longer than short newspaper articles.... so it's pretty much impossible to discuss why radical, ultra-conservative Muslim terrorists came into being....or how they only represent Islam and Muslims to westerners, but noone else....the rest of the world accepts they are extremists...
so the inevitable question is: why won't people in the West?
peace
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Post by waywardwolf on Sept 25, 2007 6:08:05 GMT -5
all societal, not governmental, expressions. I'm going to lay down my cards and say I don't know much about it, but wasn't Pakistan much more open to women's rights before the Taliban showed up? All I saw was a news cast where they were editting billboards and such that were showing a woman's face. Governments usually seem to have an affect on the societies they dominate.
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Post by miaim on Sept 25, 2007 6:10:07 GMT -5
er, suicide bombings are a Far-Eastern tradition.... and it's the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka that train the Muslim suicide bombers.... so sorry, but it's totally untrue that only Muslim terrorists are suicide bombers.... go google the Tamil Tigers if you don't believe me.... oh here, don't bother - i did for you: www.google.com/search?q=tamil+tigers%2C+suicide+bomb&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-aand female genetial mutiliation is actually more common in non-Muslim sub-Saharan African countries.... and stoning only happens in a small minority of majority Muslim countries..... google to check yourself, thanks.... so yes, i'm sorry but your fears are based on ignorance..... aside from the fact that people across the world have been bombed indiscriminately by the US - but Z will claim that's off-topic.... because the world exists in isolated pockets, apparently.... peace
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New Member
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Post by 0 on Sept 25, 2007 6:10:37 GMT -5
I think its mostly because westerners see unfathomable acts which go against every modern ideal being performed by people who are muslim. Burning and destroying European businesses over a couple of cartoons, stoning women for wanting to run in a race with men, clitoral mutilation and honor killings - all societal, not governmental, expressions. And lets not forget suicide bombers - currently no one else on the planet is blowing themselves up to kill the most civilians it can except one identifiable group. I think these are the main and understandable reasons why people have fears and concerns. And I don't think one can casually dismiss those fears as ignorance. While my previous posts show I would agree with most of your sentiments, clitorial mutilation is pre-Islamic mostly practiced in Africa stemming from tradition rather than Islam. I agree - I think there are some things that are more culturally practiced and the population simply happens to share a religion. I would not be surprised if honor killings had roots like that as well. But likewise , as outsiders, it can be difficult to separate the two, like the Crusades and Christianity.
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Post by miaim on Sept 25, 2007 6:23:25 GMT -5
^^^^it's not off-topic because one of the principal reasons why the radical terrorists exist is because of western foreign policy..... that's why most of you are scared: because you are oblivious to what the West has been up to in the Muslim world....well, yeah, of course you're scared if you don't even know why you're a target..... Yes, I agree with you. They may not be representative of the average moderate muslim, but they are the ones that make themselves the most visible and in doing so, spread islamophobia. If moderate muslims don't want to be lumped in with them then they either should distance themselves from them or silence them. If they just sit there quietly, unfair as it may be, they will get lumped in with the fundamentalist extremists. yeah, but then are non-westerners justified in lumping all westerners together too? after all, the skinheads and neo-nazis are tolerated in the west and are far more visible than the average citizen....if the west neither distances themselves (aside from Germany, neo-nazi parties are allowed to stand for elections and nearly all western parliaments include far-right racists), then westerners can't complain if non-westerners lump them together with the loony racists, no? just saying: the logical reasoning must be applied consistently..... which is my point - westerners have a habit of holding Muslims to a much higher standard than they hold themselves to....and then criticise the Muslims for failing to live up to those standards...it's like playing in a football game where the goal posts keep on shifting.... it boggles the mind why westerners can't see how inconsistent they are: the rest of the world does...hence the bully analogy....might does not maketh right, i'm afraid... i'm not going to bother complicating the issue by pointing out the radical conservative Sunni Muslims are financed by Saudi Arabia, a western-backed autocracy with no elections whatsover.....oops, i just did! peace
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Post by miaim on Sept 25, 2007 6:59:36 GMT -5
yeah, but the perception is filtered by the media....except people are too lazy to learn more about an issue to judge whether the media report is accurate or distorted or whatever....
most westerners will never come into direct contact with a Muslim terrorist....
and the western media is filled with one-sided, hysterical coverage of the radical extremists....along with the oblivious ignorance of the causes (Western foreign policy and internal politics in Muslim countries), it's not surprising the Islamophobes can't think straight and lump all Muslims together, is it?
if they don't know better and believe everything in the mainstream media, or even make s*** up (like CS) based on lord knows what, then it's not surprising that any ability to reason in a rational, logical manner about such a large issue is absent.....
"knowledge is power" because it gives you the ability to assess and judge for yourself.... but also because knowing more protects you from the temptation to jump to facile conclusions.....or it should....
which is why i agree with MWT: it's a waste of time trying to change western islamophobic views....the incentive to learn just isn't there (how many of my links go unread? it's free knowledge and yet people choose to ignore it...****sighs****), as you say.... much more fun to expose the inconsistency of prejudices and ignorance spewed....lol
peace
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Post by Ajeno on Sept 25, 2007 7:13:07 GMT -5
Why not just post your links miaim?
Why the smoke and mirrors if this is an "Islamaphobia" thread? And i for one am not close-minded and of course there are lots of people who want to understand Islam and make sense of it.My uncle has been devout muslim for 20 years now and has taught me a little about Islam and i have read parts of the kuran and my conclusion is its just another religion I dont care for..People have their opinions so i feel theres no need to become indignant..And how do you know what the western media is filled with? Have you met many people from the west to know what their views are? You dimiss everything as ignorance when you come off very ignorant yourself and not to mention self-righteous.You seem to be the stereotypical foreigner who feels they have the whole world pegged and knows more than everyone else....Remember those cocoons? hmmmm..And im not trying to offend you.
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New Member
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Post by 0 on Sept 25, 2007 7:15:44 GMT -5
if they don't know better and believe everything in the mainstream media, or even make sh*t up (like CS) based on lord knows what, then it's not surprising that any ability to reason in a rational, logical manner about such a large issue is absent..... Excuse me? Make s*** up? and how would you know anything, even though in your condescension you obviously THINK you know it all. Stick to facts not personal attacks if you want any credibility.
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