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Post by long on Dec 5, 2007 2:55:59 GMT -5
@long: It's not a need to view it as dirty. I don't have to view sex as dirty to have fun, but sometimes viewing sex as dirty is fun, too. It's not an either or situation. I see that you are very vanilla when it comes to sex, but then I couldn't have expected any other attitude from a person who refers to sex automatically as a "love act." *sigh* You're backtracking here my dear. Let me quote you: "Sex should be dirty. That's the way it was meant to be." There is contradiction here, I promise. Work on the self-knowledge before you start trying to understand me. Emphasizing love in sex is not at all vanilla. Cheap sex is vanilla in this day and age. Sorry.
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Post by long on Dec 5, 2007 2:58:16 GMT -5
I have morals, sweetie, I just don't go around trying to enforce my morals onto other people. Do you really believe that just because you're bigotted and judgmental that means your morals are superior? Sorry, but my morals are far superior, in most part because I don't try to enforce them on anyone else. They are my guide in how I myself behave, but I don't judge other people who act differently. - There is definite irony here. He's not trying to 'enforce', he's just judging. You seem unaware that you're also judging but you absolutely are: "my morals are far superior" <-- judgment. Also: "There's no exploitation when both parties get what they want and don't give anything they don't want to give." - You're failing to see that it is quite possible for both parties to be exploiting one another simultaneously. It's even possible for a person to exploit themselves when they are not fully aware of what they truly want.
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Post by daisypukes on Dec 5, 2007 3:06:17 GMT -5
^By that comment I meant that I don't need to have sex with someone I feel contempt for to enjoy sex. But that can be fun too. The fact that you think sex should always be emphasizing love and respect is pretty f**king vanilla. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but if that's all you do it's snoozeville. There's a reason why many committed and loving couples admit that angry, post-fight/pre-make up sex is their favorite kind of sex. And sex that isn't a sweet act of "lovemaking" isn't automatically cheap sex. Get off your high horse, you big prude.
And he is trying to enforce his morals on me. There is a very big difference between the way I am acting and the way he is acting. I think he's a bigot, but I was prepared to have a civil argument with him. He immediately jumped to personal attacks because he is trying to shame me into submission in a very typical male chauvinist fashion. That is an attempt to control, not just to judge. And you should try reading the rest of that sentence before you pin it as judgment of his morals. I wasn't implying that my morals are better in nature than his (though each person will believe that of his/her own morals), but that my morality extends to acceptance that there will be different views from mine. That is what is superior. Duh.
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Post by daisypukes on Dec 5, 2007 3:13:09 GMT -5
No, you're bigotted attitude toward lifestyles different from your own does not make you more moral than me. It in fact makes you less. I have some very clear rules that I live by, because I feel them necessary and right. But I don't make other people act in the same way as me. It's called acceptance. You're going to get a brain aneurysm from all that hate you have of everyone different from you.
Sex is an economic transaction in all scenarios, if you take that theory far enough. There is no person out there having sex who would still be doing it if they weren't getting something out of it themselves. That's just the way it is.
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Post by long on Dec 5, 2007 3:19:17 GMT -5
^By that comment I meant that I don't need to have sex with someone I feel contempt for to enjoy sex. But that can be fun too. The fact that you think sex should always be emphasizing love and respect is pretty f**king vanilla. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but if that's all you do it's snoozeville. There's a reason why many committed and loving couples admit that angry, post-sex/pre-make up sex is their favorite kind of sex. And sex that isn't a sweet act of "lovemaking" isn't automatically cheap sex. Get off your high horse, you big prude. - I didn't say that it has to be about emphasizing love, but it will always be better if there is love as the foundation instead of something as cheap as contempt. It is very possible to have 'dirty' sex with someone you love, and I agree make-up sex is incredible, but that can only happen when you care about the person... there's no making-up to do when you have no feelings in the first place. Sex based on contempt is cheap and ultimately will lower your own level of self-respect. When you find someone you love I promise that you will feel a touch disappointed that you cheapened the primary act by which you express that love by debasing it with people whom you despise. I don't think it's evil at all, it's just sad and unfortunate. "And he is trying to enforce his morals on me. There is a very big difference between the way I am acting and the way he is acting. I think he's a bigot, but I was prepared to have a civil argument with him. He immediately jumped to personal attacks because he is trying to shame me into submission in a very typical male chauvinist fashion. That is an attempt to control, not just to judge. And you should try reading the rest of that sentence before you pin it as judgment of his morals. I wasn't implying that my morals are better in nature than his (though each person will believe that of his/her own morals), but that my morality extends to acceptance that there will be different views from mine. That is what is superior. Duh."- I sympathize with what you're saying, but he's judging not controlling. And you did say your morals were superior, whether or not you meant that because you're tolerant is irrelevant.. you're simply including tolerance as part of your morality.
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Post by daisypukes on Dec 5, 2007 3:30:44 GMT -5
No, I disagree, some of the best sex I have ever had was with people I disliked. Not to say that sex with someone you love is BAD, it's just different. It's a matter of apples and oranges. And I prefer apples. And yes, you can have dirty sex with someone you love too. But didn't you earlier say that dirty sex is immature and indicative of a lack of self-respect. Which would mean that you NEVER have dirty sex, even with someone you love. And I have loved/been loved. I have never regretted sex I had with someone just for the hell of it, though. Jesus Christ, you make life sound like some really bad afterschool special. Why the hell would I regret illicit sex later on, just because of finding love? If anything I'd be glad of having had some flings under my belt, that way after commitment starts to bore me I'll still have some memories of a time when I wasn't bored. You "sympathize with what I'm saying but..." Um, dude, you're not the moderator here and honestly, you're being quite annoying. You're like the little kid brother that won't stop repeating what someone says while two people are having a conversation. And yes, he is trying to control me. He's trying to make me feel guilt and shame in an attempt to control my behavior. Criticizing someone is when you point out a perceived flaw. Attempts to verbally berate someone are controlling in the very least.
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Post by long on Dec 5, 2007 3:46:24 GMT -5
No, I disagree, some of the best sex I have ever had was with people I disliked. Not to say that sex with someone you love is BAD, it's just different. It's a matter of apples and oranges. And I prefer apples.
- You prefer sex with people that you dislike. My psychoanalysis: you've been in love but you've been hurt, you're vulnerable. You're afraid of future love and being hurt again. This is typical female affect. Sex with no strings attached isn't scary, sex with people you really like - "Oh noes! What if I fall in love and he leaves me, that would be terrible!" It's really better with people you like, period. Otherwise, what's the point of liking your partner ever?
But didn't you earlier say that dirty sex is immature and indicative of a lack of self-respect. Which would mean that you NEVER have dirty sex, even with someone you love.
- Sex based on contempt and without feeling is immature. I said: "the need to view it as dirty" is immature. You said, you prefer it with people you don't like... that's the logic.
Why the hell would I regret illicit sex later on, just because of finding love? If anything I'd be glad of having had some flings under my belt, that way after commitment starts to bore me I'll still have some memories of a time when I wasn't bored.
- You'd regret it because you have separated the act of sex from the feelings of love, you have made it cheap. If you assume that love will become boring than you have a warped view of love.. again I will go back to my psychoanalysis: you're afraid of love because you're afraid of being hurt. This is why you devalue love.
You "sympathize with what I'm saying but..." Um, dude, you're not the moderator here and honestly, you're being quite annoying.
- You're simply annoyed because I'm disagreeing with you. I'm not acting the moderator, I'm just expressing my opinion, sometimes I agree with him, others with you.
Attempts to verbally berate someone are controlling in the very least.
- Wrong. They're just judgment. And you verbally berate people all the time, in fact it's your MO on this forum. Does that make you ms controlling? Hypocrisy, irony, lack of self-knowledge.
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Post by daisypukes on Dec 5, 2007 3:57:24 GMT -5
^You are cheapening sex by putting economic value on it. You are clearly the one thinking of sex as currency, not me. Again, there are DIFFERENT beliefs. Your lack of respect for other viewpoints does not make you more moral, it makes you less. Your god is not my god, idiot. Not everyone here is going to be a Christian. My attitude is what makes me accepting. You are narrow and self-absorbed and refuse to see anything other than your own beliefs. There is a grey area, you just refuse to see it. You refuse to see anything other than your own closeminded bullsh*t perception. And I live by rules. Very strict rules which are frankly none of your business. There are a lot of things I abstain from because I feel it's right. And there are also a lot of things I make myself do because I feel it's right. I just don't bark orders at other people to be just like me. Have you ever met an actual prostitute? They get money. They don't enjoy it. At all. I don't want money, I can earn money myself, I'm a completely independent person who has enough skills not to have to resort to prostitution. But sex, yes, sex I want sometimes. Big f**king deal. @long: Stop psychoanalyzing me, you retard. I really doubt you would say the same thing to a guy who pointed out that he prefers sex with girls he dislikes. Sex with someone you dislike is more often angry in nature, it's just better. Get over it, not everything has a deep psychological meaning. So, my need to view it as dirty (which isn't existent, I don't NEED to view it as dirty, I just think it's better dirty) is immature. But when you have dirty sex, that isn't immature. Riiiiight. You sound like a f**king 14 yr old girl sometimes, you know that? This overly romantic crap about love, love, love is about to make me vomit all over my keyboard. Get over yourself, you weepy little sh*t. You should be in a K-drama, I swear. I don't care if you agree with me or with him. You're being annoying either way. This isn't about you, and yet you continue to try to pull the attention onto yourself and your perceptions of what is going on. f**king IRRITATING. I don't verbally berate people all the time, you dipsh*t. I verbally berate you. And I was verbally berating you in the attempt to get you to shut the f**k up. I guess that is a tad controlling. But then, I never said that I couldn't be controlling. Everyone has it in them at some point. Right now Sam's being controlling, and his reasons are a bit more icky than the one I had when I was trying to get you to shut the f**k up. Now will you please just shut the f**k up? The f**ked up thing is, Sam is clearly the person that should be pissing me off the most right now, with all the personal attacks and such...but somehow it's you that's pissing me off. Again. You have a very grating personality.
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Post by daisypukes on Dec 5, 2007 4:11:03 GMT -5
Stop generalizing. I don't want marriage. I want a stable relationship someday, maybe...but not marriage, and not necessarily monogamy.
When I make a mistake, I regret it. Having sex with someone when I want to and how I want to is not a mistake. There is no regret to be had. Again, I have morals, and I used to be quite vociferous about them, but that was when I was a teenager and thought it was okay to be bratty and try to control other people and make them like me. I grew out of it. So sad that you still haven't.
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Post by long on Dec 5, 2007 4:16:29 GMT -5
I'm tired and I'm going to bed, so this will be the last one.. it'll be quick and easy.. don't read it if it's going to piss you off kiddo. But don't curse at me and not expect me to take notice. I really doubt you would say the same thing to a guy who pointed out that he prefers sex with girls he dislikes.- You guessed wrong. I accept no double-standard here. Sex with someone you dislike is more often angry in nature, it's just better. Get over it, not everything has a deep psychological meaning.- Sure, but some things do. Like love and attitudes towards sex. The interpretation could absolutely be true for some people.. do you disagree? Whether it's true or not for you I have no idea honestly, but if it's even partly true you should be honest with yourself about it. You'd be better off. So, my need to view it as dirty (which isn't existent, I don't NEED to view it as dirty, I just think it's better dirty) is immature. But when you have dirty sex, that isn't immature. Riiiiight.- You're mixing together dirty = contempt and cheap, with dirty = unorthodox mutually-enjoyable acts with someone you have feelings for. I'm belittling the former. Let me quote you again : "Sex should be dirty. That's the way it was meant to be." (Dirty in the lack of respect sense) It's not a stretch to go from 'it's meant to be" to "I need it to be that way." Oh, and I didn't say at all that I was mature. Just because I have opinions about what is good does not mean I am good. You sound like a f**king 14 yr old girl sometimes, you know that? This overly romantic crap about love, love, love is about to make me vomit all over my keyboard. Get over yourself, you weepy little sh*t. You should be in a K-drama, I swear.- I didn't say anything romantic. I just said it's better with love. It can be good without love. Okie dokie? I don't care if you agree with me or with him. You're being annoying either way. This isn't about you, and yet you continue to try to pull the attention onto yourself and your perceptions of what is going on. f**king IRRITATING.
- Paraphrase: Long is expressing his opinion. I hate that! The attention should be on me! Waaaahhh. Controlling <-> you. I don't verbally berate people all the time, you dipsh*t. I verbally berate you. And I was verbally berating you in the attempt to get you to shut the f**k up. I guess that is a tad controlling. But then, I never said that I couldn't be controlling. Everyone has it in them at some point. Right now Sam's being controlling, and his reasons are a bit more icky than the one I had when I was trying to get you to shut the f**k up. Now will you please just shut the f**k up? The f**ked up thing is, Sam is clearly the person that should be pissing me off the most right now, with all the personal attacks and such...but somehow it's you that's pissing me off. Again. You have a very grating personality.- You're aware of the irony and you're playing it up. Clever, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. It's admitting I'm right. Don't hate me for it, thanks.
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Post by daisypukes on Dec 5, 2007 4:34:25 GMT -5
I never agreed that economics was a good metaphor to describe sex with. I said that if you were going to describe casual sex as a cheap economic transaction, that you could do the same for sex with feelings. Not that you should think of all sex as being an economic transaction, just that you could. Wrong again, I still have morals. I'm just not as bitchy about mine as you are. I don't feel it's my place to tell other people how to live their lives. I just live my own because I'm not so f***ing self-satisfied that I think I can run around and save other people and tell them how to act if they want to be "right" in my eyes. Um, sweetie, those prostitutes you f***ed didn't love it. They just pretended to. You're so stupid sometimes it hurts. My sex life and my professional life are two separate things, I don't feel the need to merge them. @long: I'm not going to pick each part of what you said again, it's just a distraction. You are basically acting as an irritating little distraction. "I agree with this here that you said," "this over here that he said I agree with." Um, okay, now just shut the f*** up. You are not a real part of this debate, you're just the heckler and it's getting old.
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Post by jewbird on Dec 5, 2007 5:14:29 GMT -5
I never agreed that economics was a good metaphor to describe sex with. I said that if you were going to describe casual sex as a cheap economic transaction, that you could do the same for sex with feelings. Not that you should think of all sex as being an economic transaction, just that you could. Well, right, you could. And you could apply feelings to the models instead of currency and still use economics as a framework. Well stop being so selfish and share them with us then! If your own values were better than other people's then surely, you would feel like it was your place. As it happens, you are incapable of distinguishing what are higher and lower values except for the "higher" value of not telling other people what to do, that you alone conveniently possess. Um, sweetie, you weren't there. Any overlap is purely coincidental, right?
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Post by daisypukes on Dec 5, 2007 8:31:47 GMT -5
Exactly, in which case, every person on this planet who has had sex is a prostitute. Including you. I'm not that 16 yr old moron that thinks that her views are gold and everyone else should eat s*** anymore. I've matured. I'm not the only person who possesses this miraculous ability to not be a blowhard asshole. And if your idea of values is intolerance and bigotry, you can f***ing have your values and shove them up your ass. Of course, darling. They loved f***ing you, that's why they made you pay them. You are such a loser, I can't believe you're admitting to f***ing prostitutes and then telling me how moral you are. You're pathetic.
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Post by long on Dec 6, 2007 8:40:41 GMT -5
This thread was locked before right? Were some posts deleted by moderators? What are the rules in play here?
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Post by Pushnpull on Dec 8, 2007 15:58:36 GMT -5
Did I open up a can of worms or what??? I leave for a few days and it's 6 pages long.
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