|
|
Post by jefe on Mar 7, 2009 1:55:20 GMT -5
@ Miyuki ... +1  BINGO -- add +1 for me too.  |
|
|
|
Post by jefe on Mar 7, 2009 1:57:11 GMT -5
A parent should raise a child to be able to not just cope, but to succeed in the world at large. Sheltering a mixed-race child from an 'all white' school or neighborhood may save some teasing in the short term, but hurts that child's chance to grow up and learn how to deal with that kind of pressure. I know plenty of Asian and mixed-Asian kids who grew up in all-white environments, and others who now live and work in the same. If you want to be in the US Senate, you're going to have to learn how to deal with white people! The same if you are wealthy and join a country club, or if you send your kid to the best private schools (which are often almost all white), if you sit on a corporate board, if you go in front of venture capitalists, etc. The fact is that white people, like it or not, are part of our reality and you would be best to teach your kid how to deal with them, especially as the ONLY minority in the group. At worst, you'll fail, but at least your tried - maybe better parenting skills would help or the kid just doesn't have the personality to cope and succeed. At best, however, you will teach your child how to overcome that kind of pressure, ridicule, and hostility by making friends and impressing people with your good nature, strength, and friendliness. President Obama went to school in Hawaii, 2 years in college in Los Angeles, 2 years in Columbia in New York City, years dealing with poor African Americans in Chicago, law school at harvard (which has a diverse student body) where he met his right hand man who is Chinese, has a cabinet with 4 Asians, African American as attorney general, and a White woman as secretary of state, and a brown skinned Israeli Jew as his Karl Rove. I'm sorry, I don't see how being ridiculed and scorn helps your kid. Sorry, but don¡¦t know where you are coming from.  President Obama spent his primary school years in Indonesia where there were no people of African or European descent, nor anyone from the USA (there may have been a stray American there, but for all intents and purposes, none). He was subject to recurring taunts, scorn and ridicule from the other kids, which he does not talk about today, and only alluded to it in his book ¡§Dreams from My Father¡¨ where it mentioned that he was bullied in school and told his Indonesian stepfather about it. His stepfather told him that he needed to learn how to fight ¡V simply don¡¦t let them take advantage of you. In Hawaii, he went to Punahou, one of the prestigious schools in Honolulu. On my first trip to Hawaii (1982), one of the MUST DO things that I did there was visit Punahou. I knew all the several dozen students at my university who went to Punahou, and once they had the Greater Boston Punahou alumni meeting at my university ¡V there were a few hundred Punahou alumni attended schools in Greater Boston and I met many of them. I thought my university was well-equipped compared to the high school I went to, but Punahou¡¦s facilities in a total different league ¡V making me feel as though my *elite* New England university was a *cut below*, even *podunk*. Punahou educated the well-heeled in Hawaii, and had a fairly evenly split at that time between the white haole proportion and Asian-American proportion, with a sprinkling of hapa-haoles. Obama may not have had to deal with overwhelming violent physical taunts from his schoolmates, but with only 3-4 schoolmates with any African ancestry, not to mention his family¡¦s more modest background, I am certain that he felt very deeply the ridicule and scorn from the other kids and society. Some of my schoolmates remember him as the ¡§pothead¡¨ (Little did I know in university that my schoolmates went to high school with someone who would be the future president.) Indeed, if he grew up in such a tolerant paradise (and Hawaii is considered tolerant compared to the mainland USA), he nevertheless smoked pot and experimented with drugs to dull the aches that he felt being isolated and disenfranchised from the community around him. Then, upon moving to the mainland USA, he learned again firsthand that he had almost nothing in common with African-Americans. Both his biological father and stepfather were non-American *foreigners*, and his cultural ties to mainland USA were from his white mid-western mother¡¦s family, NOT anything at all that had to do with Black American ghettos, NO ORAL tradition handed down from slavery or sharecropping or segregation, and what he knew about Black America was largely from books and TV. In learning about Black America, he encountered countless scorn and ridicule from the African American community as being a true outsider. Even during his campaign, many key African-American spokespersons riled Obama as NOT BEING FROM THE *HOOD*, and NOT ONE OF THEM! Even I, who witnessed and experienced first hand the situation between Blacks and Whites in SE Wasington,DC, PG county, MD, Alabama and Boston in the 1960s and 1970s do feel that Obama did not grow up with something that many of us of that generation feel very deeply and he seems somehow *detached*, as though he cannot possibly know and feel what others in US society did. Yet, I recognize that he grew up with some very trying and difficult situations which I could not possibly fathom, and which undoubtedly have served to make him the very leader that he is today. Gee, when he went to visit Kenya, AGAIN, he has to confront another society which he has some identity and affiliation with but which at the same time is something quite alien. I cannot say he feels at home there either. Finally, after extolling both his white grandmother and Kenyan ¡§Auntie Sara¡¨ throughout his campaign, I saw him sit his Eurasian sister and her Chinese-Canadian husband with their daughter at the front of the podium on his inauguration, and I look forward to seeing him sit his Kenyan born half-brother living in China and his mainland Chinese wife at a function soon (maybe in China?) He has felt alienated from nearly every group he had to contend with growing up, yet, has learned to talk and get along with a very diverse group of people and gain their acceptance, and is not shy or ashamed about any of his close relationships, no matter how controversial or different. SO, Your example of Obama does not support your hypothesis at all, but actually strongly supports Serge¡¦s argument. Growing up with scorn and ridicule has helped to make him effective as a leader today. He would have never fit in as the local Hawaii boy nor as the dude from the *hood*, but, he can get along with both of them and accomplish something much more important and significant than *fitting in*. In fact, the accomplishments that you cite are actually perhaps the result of being scorned and ridiculed as a kid. |
|
|
|
Post by Subuatai on Mar 7, 2009 8:50:10 GMT -5
I'm starting to actually like obama now =/
|
|
cm
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
|
Post by cm on Mar 7, 2009 11:17:58 GMT -5
President Obama went to school in Hawaii, 2 years in college in Los Angeles, 2 years in Columbia in New York City, years dealing with poor African Americans in Chicago, law school at harvard (which has a diverse student body) where he met his right hand man who is Chinese, has a cabinet with 4 Asians, African American as attorney general, and a White woman as secretary of state, and a brown skinned Israeli Jew as his Karl Rove. I'm sorry, I don't see how being ridiculed and scorn helps your kid. Sorry, but don¡¦t know where you are coming from. President Obama spent his primary school years in Indonesia where there were no people of African or European descent, nor anyone from the USA (there may have been a stray American there, but for all intents and purposes, none). He was subject to recurring taunts, scorn and ridicule from the other kids, which he does not talk about today, and only alluded to it in his book ¡§Dreams from My Father¡¨ where it mentioned that he was bullied in school and told his Indonesian stepfather about it. His stepfather told him that he needed to learn how to fight ¡V simply don¡¦t let them take advantage of you. In Hawaii, he went to Punahou, one of the prestigious schools in Honolulu. On my first trip to Hawaii (1982), one of the MUST DO things that I did there was visit Punahou. I knew all the several dozen students at my university who went to Punahou, and once they had the Greater Boston Punahou alumni meeting at my university ¡V there were a few hundred Punahou alumni attended schools in Greater Boston and I met many of them. I thought my university was well-equipped compared to the high school I went to, but Punahou¡¦s facilities in a total different league ¡V making me feel as though my *elite* New England university was a *cut below*, even *podunk*. Punahou educated the well-heeled in Hawaii, and had a fairly evenly split at that time between the white haole proportion and Asian-American proportion, with a sprinkling of hapa-haoles. Obama may not have had to deal with overwhelming violent physical taunts from his schoolmates, but with only 3-4 schoolmates with any African ancestry, not to mention his family¡¦s more modest background, I am certain that he felt very deeply the ridicule and scorn from the other kids and society. Some of my schoolmates remember him as the ¡§pothead¡¨ (Little did I know in university that my schoolmates went to high school with someone who would be the future president.) Indeed, if he grew up in such a tolerant paradise (and Hawaii is considered tolerant compared to the mainland USA), he nevertheless smoked pot and experimented with drugs to dull the aches that he felt being isolated and disenfranchised from the community around him. Then, upon moving to the mainland USA, he learned again firsthand that he had almost nothing in common with African-Americans. Both his biological father and stepfather were non-American *foreigners*, and his cultural ties to mainland USA were from his white mid-western mother¡¦s family, NOT anything at all that had to do with Black American ghettos, NO ORAL tradition handed down from slavery or sharecropping or segregation, and what he knew about Black America was largely from books and TV. In learning about Black America, he encountered countless scorn and ridicule from the African American community as being a true outsider. Even during his campaign, many key African-American spokespersons riled Obama as NOT BEING FROM THE *HOOD*, and NOT ONE OF THEM! Even I, who witnessed and experienced first hand the situation between Blacks and Whites in SE Wasington,DC, PG county, MD, Alabama and Boston in the 1960s and 1970s do feel that Obama did not grow up with something that many of us of that generation feel very deeply and he seems somehow *detached*, as though he cannot possibly know and feel what others in US society did. Yet, I recognize that he grew up with some very trying and difficult situations which I could not possibly fathom, and which undoubtedly have served to make him the very leader that he is today. Gee, when he went to visit Kenya, AGAIN, he has to confront another society which he has some identity and affiliation with but which at the same time is something quite alien. I cannot say he feels at home there either. Finally, after extolling both his white grandmother and Kenyan ¡§Auntie Sara¡¨ throughout his campaign, I saw him sit his Eurasian sister and her Chinese-Canadian husband with their daughter at the front of the podium on his inauguration, and I look forward to seeing him sit his Kenyan born half-brother living in China and his mainland Chinese wife at a function soon (maybe in China?) He has felt alienated from nearly every group he had to contend with growing up, yet, has learned to talk and get along with a very diverse group of people and gain their acceptance, and is not shy or ashamed about any of his close relationships, no matter how controversial or different. SO, Your example of Obama does not support your hypothesis at all, but actually strongly supports Serge¡¦s argument. Growing up with scorn and ridicule has helped to make him effective as a leader today. He would have never fit in as the local Hawaii boy nor as the dude from the *hood*, but, he can get along with both of them and accomplish something much more important and significant than *fitting in*. In fact, the accomplishments that you cite are actually perhaps the result of being scorned and ridiculed as a kid. Uh, no. Go back to the argument. I said for mixed people, they should never be brought up in an all-white area. So this evidence supports what I'm saying...always raise your child in multi-cultural areas so he/she can chose what group to associate his/herself. Nowhere did you mention an 'all-white' school. Obama's school in Indonesia was filled with Indonesian children. As you said, Obama's school in Hawaii has Asians, many of which he made friends with. Everywhere he went, he was always in a multi-cultural area. As mixed people, feeling alienating is common. That's why, as I keep saying, Keep your kids in multi-cultural areas, so they can decide what group to be in. Don't put them in a position where their choices are limited. So you're completely and utterly wrong. He always grew up in multi-cultural areas, and growing up in those areas broadened his horizons. Growing up in a hick red neck town will suppress you, and turn you into a white washed self hater. I hope the original poster takes my advice, rather than this bulls***. Swallow your egos, and just tell her the truth. Stop the white washing, and allow these children the opportunity to grow up in a better environment. Raising your child in a multi-cultural area is the best thing you can do for a mixed race child. |
|
|
|
Post by admin on Mar 7, 2009 11:43:52 GMT -5
Avoiding all-white school, neighborhoods, etc., for a mixed race child is only going to create or reinforce any feelings of inferiority and will deprive them of an environment where they can learn to stick up for themselves. It's like avoiding riding a bike for the fear of getting a scraped knee. After a while, you learn how to ride the bike AND avoid the scraped knee, which makes you an effective person with a strong sense of self-worth. If you fear groups of white people and avoid them, you are going to feel inferior and incapable of succeeding in their midst. As for this comment: I will remind you that rule #1 here is "Respect your fellow EAN members." eurasiannation.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=rules&action=display&thread=10057 |
|
|
|
Post by jefe on Mar 7, 2009 15:19:45 GMT -5
^Indeed. How could he have been president of the Harvard Law Review had he been unsure of himself around white people. ONLY white people had been running the Harvard Law Review before that. OH, I get it. Being around only Indonesian kids in primary school prepared him to lead white people at Harvard Law School.  Yes, indeed it may have. I remember doing a book report in the 4th grade about the famous past presidents -- Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc. The teacher asked me why I was interested in reading this book. I replied, in front of a group of 95% white kids in my stuttering voice, that I hope to become President one day (the following year my school district changed and my class became over 50% black, heading to an overwhelming majority the following year -- that was *just* before desegregation when they earmarked schools to be either 95% white or 95% black). Then the teacher said to all the other kids -- remember what this boy said -- he said that he is going to president one day -- and you heard him tell you in THIS class. I wonder if Obama ever said that to his schoolmates in primary school. |
|
cm
Junior Member
Posts: 68
|
Post by cm on Mar 7, 2009 17:44:34 GMT -5
Avoiding all-white school, neighborhoods, etc., for a mixed race child is only going to create or reinforce any feelings of inferiority and will deprive them of an environment where they can learn to stick up for themselves. It's like avoiding riding a bike for the fear of getting a scraped knee. After a while, you learn how to ride the bike AND avoid the scraped knee, which makes you an effective person with a strong sense of self-worth. If you fear groups of white people and avoid them, you are going to feel inferior and incapable of succeeding in their midst. As for this comment: I will remind you that rule #1 here is "Respect your fellow EAN members." eurasiannation.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=rules&action=display&thread=10057You mean like the people attacking my character in this thread? Zap, you still sound bitter about your childhood experiences; clearly you had a rough time and I'm sorry for that. To be honest though, you don't come across very friendly with your responses so far and it makes me wonder if not making friends in high school was always to do with racism. I'm arguing against opinions. I never called anybody stupid, or mean, or bitter. All the money and influence in America are in multi-cultural cities anyways, and most business deals are international. Being in a multi-cultural area allows you to learn to deal with other cultures, as well as being able to find your own identity. The fact is, there is zero advantage of growing up in an all white neighborhood. 1. Most people in the world live in cities 2. Most cities tend to be diverse 3. Most business transactions take place in cities. 4. You can learn how to deal with city white people, who you will deal with in your professional life, as opposed to idiot rednecks, who will be pumping your gas. You're going to learn to deal with the world better in a city, than be sheltered in a white suburb. |
|
|
|
Post by Subuatai on Mar 7, 2009 18:37:12 GMT -5
Avoiding all-white school, neighborhoods, etc., for a mixed race child is only going to create or reinforce any feelings of inferiority and will deprive them of an environment where they can learn to stick up for themselves. It's like avoiding riding a bike for the fear of getting a scraped knee. After a while, you learn how to ride the bike AND avoid the scraped knee, which makes you an effective person with a strong sense of self-worth. If you fear groups of white people and avoid them, you are going to feel inferior and incapable of succeeding in their midst. To be fair: When we make plans for our children we must first acknowledge the fact that they are not yet adults. True, you are right in that our children must not be raised in a closed sheltered environment, but forcing them to deal with the other extreme is not recommendable either; they may not remain a victim sure, but they may become a victimizer. As for childhood/teenage social conditions due to mixed heritage, Zap does have a point in that all-white societies will tend to leave a negative mark on E.A.s. During teens especially. Let's say for example, there's a librarian geek, no one likes him, everyone says s*** about him, would any teen want to even be seen NEAR him? Of course not, it'll hurt the teen's rep amongst his peers. Now let's use a related example: one E.A. teenager amongst his/her nine western friends. A racist comment is made, the other nine will laugh, the E.A. will laugh with his/her peers. If he/she says anything back, no one will laugh, and he/she will be ridiculed. Now I was raised amongst an all-white society as well. I was lucky in a sense that the Aussies here actually quite admired my Mongol heritage. It was easy for me to make friends, however... growing up amongst them I ended up hating all other asians!!!!! Back then, I didn't care, because I enjoyed my mates company. Heh memories now... I just remembered once how my mates defended me on one of their classes. This new kid at school was telling my mates how much he hates Asians and that my mates shouldn't hang around with me. My mates responded saying "Mate! He aint Asian, he's a Mongol! He's so f--king gonna kick your ass if he hears this!". Now, what's wrong with that statement? Mongolia is in Asia!!!!!! But what the heck, heh kids Ne ways I have to admit, that upbringing raised me to be a somewhat rather shameful individual in the past. I had always sided with whites, hated aboriginals and other non-white immigrants, made the same racist comments against non-whites. That changed when I turned 16, with my family abandoning me onto the streets. It was a rather traumatizing experience, but it nowadays I'm quite thankful for it. Simply because it made me into a man who made his own decisions. I made a promise to myself never to be weak, naive, easily manipulated or pathetic again. After 16 I started getting to know non-white people, I abolished such strong western prejudice against the aborigines and even got to know an aboriginal girl quite intimately. However as I made more friends to to non-whites I found myself slowly losing the friends I grew up with. However, looking back, that's a good thing. I enjoy my multi-cultural mentality and no one can tell me otherwise. Hence, it's something I want my children to be raised up in. Truth is, if I didn't go through that trauma with my family at 16, I may not have matured even now. Today I still see many self-hating non-whites in Australia even up to their 30s. From first hand experience, I have to agree with Zap in that "raising children in a multi-cultural society is best" |
|
|
|
Post by Groink on Mar 7, 2009 23:51:16 GMT -5
The irony here is that all the things that are stereotypically ascribed to conservative whites -- self-righteousness and rigid, unbending dogma -- is being preached here, too.
I think as soon as you find yourself proclaiming you are unequivocally correct, it is a good time to step back and *really* examine your position. I've not known anyone who was 100% correct on anything.
That being said, everyone's experiences are different. Circumstance teaches us what it can at the time, but it's up to us to temper that experience with the knowledge that our experiences aren't absolute proof.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miyuki on Mar 12, 2009 3:34:40 GMT -5
The irony here is that all the things that are stereotypically ascribed to conservative whites -- self-righteousness and rigid, unbending dogma -- is being preached here, too. I think as soon as you find yourself proclaiming you are unequivocally correct, it is a good time to step back and *really* examine your position. I've not known anyone who was 100% correct on anything. That being said, everyone's experiences are different. Circumstance teaches us what it can at the time, but it's up to us to temper that experience with the knowledge that our experiences aren't absolute proof. Well said Groink! |
|
cm
Junior Member
Posts: 68
|
Post by cm on Mar 18, 2009 14:26:49 GMT -5
We can have all the +1's here we want. The fact remains, that half the people in this thread share my view. And those who share my view, actually have grown up in these types of environments.
So to the original poster, there's a 50% chance that your daughter will agree with me, or 50% change that they won't. If you're willing to take that type of risk, then by all means. Most parents want the best for their children. If you want the best, put them in a multicultural city. I'd give that advice to 2 white parents as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miyuki on Mar 20, 2009 20:19:01 GMT -5
If you want the best, put them in a multicultural city. I'd give that advice to 2 white parents as well. I agree with this. |
|
|
|
Post by jefe on Mar 21, 2009 23:46:53 GMT -5
I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that statement.
So
- mixed kids should NEVER be raised in an all-white area, esp. a suburb
- *white* kids should NOT, if possible, be raised in an all-white area
Conclusion:
Kids, regardless of their ethnic mixture, should not be raised in an all-white area, esp. if located in a suburb.
OK,
I have an idea, we should snatch up all kids who are unfortunately born into a family living in an all-white neighborhood and whisk them to be raised under the watch and auspice of tribal chiefs in Native American or Aboriginal reveservations / reserves. They can be returned to the families only if
- their families volunteer to relocate to a neighborhood that meets the *mixed racial / ethnic* criteria; or
- after they have reached the age of majority and can choose to move away from the all-white neighborhoods themselves. If they choose to move back to the all-white suburbs, then they will be STERILIZED.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miyuki on Mar 22, 2009 6:10:39 GMT -5
I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that statement. Yeah, I don't think any of us disagreed with it, did we? I think multiculturalism is awesome, obviously! ;D |
|
cm
Junior Member
Posts: 68
|
Post by cm on Mar 22, 2009 13:40:02 GMT -5
I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that statement. So - mixed kids should NEVER be raised in an all-white area, esp. a suburb - *white* kids should NOT, if possible, be raised in an all-white area Conclusion: Kids, regardless of their ethnic mixture, should not be raised in an all-white area, esp. if located in a suburb. OK, I have an idea, we should snatch up all kids who are unfortunately born into a family living in an all-white neighborhood and whisk them to be raised under the watch and auspice of tribal chiefs in Native American or Aboriginal reveservations / reserves. They can be returned to the families only if - their families volunteer to relocate to a neighborhood that meets the *mixed racial / ethnic* criteria; or - after they have reached the age of majority and can choose to move away from the all-white neighborhoods themselves. If they choose to move back to the all-white suburbs, then they will be STERILIZED. Uh, actually you guys did disagree with it, even stating something to the effect that growing up in an all white area will 'strengthen' the kids, and that multicultural areas will 'exclude them'. Have you ever been to a Native American reservation? I have, and my dad taught in one. Most of them are good people. Maybe your upbringing in a white neighborhood gives you this condescending attitude towards Native Americans, further strengthening my argument. |
|
